# Pitting iiandyiiii **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 24, 2016, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-iiandyiiii/760781 "2016-07-24T16:14:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-iiandyiiii/760781/161 "2016-07-26T16:28:52Z")
To answer the “how far does tolerance go?” question. It goes as far as “what is right”. Irrational hatred, anger or fear of groups is not ‘right’. Sure, you can vent all you want, but everyone else gets to have their opinion too, and most of us think people who hate other groups of people for irrational or false ‘moral’ reasons are assholes. My bottom line moral compass for dealing with other people and their personal preferences is this; _**What is right for us as individuals and society? That we should be who we are, Or that we should be forced to be what we are not For the comfort of the small minded?**_ You’re free to be whoever the fuck you want to be. And we’re all free to think you’re a petty, angry and irrationally hate-filled little fucktard. I mean, seriously, what possibly injury is done to you by people being trans, by people being gay, by people believing in a different version of God, or no god at all? You not liking it is completely irrelevant, because no one needs you to approve of who they are, or for you to be the small minded git who insists other people not be who they are for your comfort. I mean, if I worked with you and you had this irrational hatred of people who wear jeans, and made stupid, angry comments about jeans-wearing people every day, I’d think you were an irrational asshole and I’d complain to management about your negativity in the workplace and your harassment over my jeans wearing. So what is really the difference between people who wear jeans and people being gay? Sure, jeans are a choice and being gay isn’t. But neither of them affects you one damned bit, so complaining or speaking badly of either one doesn’t reflect very well on \*\*you \*\*as a person. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-iiandyiiii/760781/162 "2016-07-26T16:32:29Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Huey Long once said “every man a king.” Now, people like you and say “every man a racist.” The full quote: [QUOTE=Huey Long] I’m for the poor man — all poor men, black and white, they all gotta have a chance. They gotta have a home, a job, and a decent education for their children. ‘Every man a king’ — that’s my slogan." [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-iiandyiiii/760781/163 "2016-07-26T16:38:24Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > So what is really the difference between people who wear jeans and people being gay? Sure, jeans are a choice and being gay isn’t. [What, never?](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Np-PjftJN8&t=1m2s) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-iiandyiiii/760781/164 "2016-07-26T17:53:14Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > says who? The far-left? You’ve been presented with numerous citations, from several folks. You’re just simply not teachable. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-iiandyiiii/760781/165 "2016-07-26T18:12:22Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > [snip] … Has anyone noticed that **DerekMichaels** has his IQ in his user name? I noticed, but I sure as hell wasn’t going to bring it up. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-iiandyiiii/760781/166 "2016-07-26T18:26:42Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > I noticed, but I sure as hell wasn’t going to bring it up. Bringing it up from 00 to 10 won’t help much. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-iiandyiiii/760781/167 "2016-07-26T18:36:37Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Sure we’ll have Fascism in America, but it will come disguised as 100% Americanism > > – Huey Long When facism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross. - Sinclair Lewis ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-iiandyiiii/760781/168 "2016-07-26T23:36:09Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I am curious why you are so dismissive of imperialism or colonialism as a set of causes. > > There are a number of different phenomena in play, here. We can look at different events in the world, (not limited to Islam): > When we examine the Enlightenment, we can go back the the Renaissance for its seed ground. While Europe always had warring factions, there was general stability under the religious “empire” of the church. In fact, just prior to (and providing impetus to) the Renaissance, there were a number of different movements within the church that showed more ecumenical and liberal ideals than had existed, previously. However, when some of those ideas threatened the “empire” of the church, the church withdrew to its most conservative positions, attempting to quash all such movements. The resulting Reformation and Counter-Reformation battles that neither side could win provided a basis for the development of secular thought. (It is all fine and well to hold a strict religious belief, but a secular approach allows one to work with religious “enemies” to promote trade or to form alliances with those “enemies” against others–even others who might be on the same side of the religious feuds.) > > So secularism began to get a toehold in Europe. > > Meanwhile, the various factors that led to the Reformation, (recent availability of large numbers of Greek and Hebrew texts that allowed people to challenge the official Latin version of scripture, vast holdings of property by the church, temporal power held by the church that provoked and promoted interference by the church with civil authority and interference by civil authority with the church, etc.), did not occur in Muslim lands, as there was no “church” to engage. > > Europe’s sea borne adventures took Europeans to nearly all the globe, typically resulting in interference with local societies. From the sixteenth through the early 20th centuries, Europeans exerted increasing control over India, Indonesia, Philippines, then Egypt and Sudan, Algeria, Morocco, with attempts at Afghanistan and other locations. Following WWI, with the defeat of the aging Ottoman empire, Europeans chopped up the Middle East in ways that disrupted traditional tribal boundaries. > > Meanwhile, in the nineteenth century, a conservative movement, Salafism, began in the Arabian peninsula that provided a rallying point for people upset about foreign control of their lands. The frequent reaction to this movement by the (European or European influenced) governments was fear accompanied by suppression. This gave status to the Salafist groups as freedom fighters, as well as strengthening the groups and making them more conservative (as persecution generally does). > > The Cold War kept some of those groups contained, and provided more persecution to encourage proselytizing and conservatism: The Shah’s anti-Islam laws, the treatment of Filipino Muslims as “communists,” the suppression of Islamic culture in Indonesia, (again the laws were couched in “anti-communist” terms), the Soviet suppression of Chechnya, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, and other events. As the Cold War wound down, the major powers turned their attention away from their proxy wars and the Salafists were able to promote their beliefs as a combination of indigenous freedom fighting and a return to “real” Islam (although Salafism is only one of many movements within Islam). Thus, the most extreme of the _Mujahideen_ supported by Reagan and Bush were able to re-form as the Taliban, and eventually conquer Afghanistan, protests against the Shah’s anti-Islamic laws allowed the Ayatollah Khomeini to establish a theocracy in Iran, bin Laden, angered by what he considered the irreverence and corruption of the House of Saud created _al Qaida_ and then turned his attention against the U.S. that had propped up that family. > > Of course, amidst these many movements and conflicts, it was hardly surprising that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and Abu Omar al-Baghdadi could come up with the idea of “retoring” the Caliphate and creating ISIS, (much as Pol Pot and his Khmer Rouge established a brutal regime based on a “pure” Maoist Marxism that had little to nothing to do with the actual ideas of Karl Marx). > > So, European (and later, American), interference in their countries played a strong role in providing the Salafists the opportunity to proselytize their particular version of Islam across the world. Very few Salafist groups are purely religious. Pretty much every one of them has its origins in rebellion against attempts to suppress either the religious beliefs or the desire for self-government of the people. I wanted to thank you for this post. In all sincerity. Don’t think it went unnoticed. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-iiandyiiii/760781/169 "2016-07-27T00:00:27Z")
You are welcome. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-iiandyiiii/760781/170 "2016-07-27T00:00:40Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Great Og on a pogo stick this is truly gold. How does this guy find the intelligence to breathe? Autonomic respiratory system. No intelligence required. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-iiandyiiii/760781/171 "2016-07-27T00:24:36Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > says who? The far-left? Ever think dissenting from the canonical liberal line is OK? Sure, dissent is OK… but some of us think “same rights for T’s as for LGB’s” is the right way to go and feel no need to dissent. > [@](#): > > Also, what point does the tolerance-of-everything-and-anything thing end? How far does it go? Apparently, it goes farther for some of us than it does for you. > [@](#): > > you and your helpers here turn me into a right-winger. We don’t have to turn you into anything, you were a right-winger when you showed up. You just don’t realize it. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-iiandyiiii/760781/172 "2016-07-27T00:35:19Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > We don’t have to turn you into anything, you were a right-winger when you showed up. You just don’t realize it. He realizes it. He just doesn’t want US to. It harshes his ratfuckery. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-iiandyiiii/760781/173 "2016-07-27T03:03:58Z")
So then, **Angry Right Winger Claiming To Be Liberal #43,217** \* then. - Well, on this board. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-iiandyiiii/760781/174 "2016-07-27T03:58:16Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Autonomic respiratory system. No intelligence required. See if I was intelligent I would have known that. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-iiandyiiii/760781/175 "2016-07-27T10:28:49Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > I can’t decide if **iiandyiii** or **Chief Pedant** and the shitstains that are of CP’s ilk are more responsible for the consistency with which we can find race realist threads on the first page of Great Debates. That’s entirely on the racists. What, you think we should just let their fraudulent racist fuckery go unanswered? On _this_ board of all places? Have you _read_ our masthead? I think **iiandyiiii** does a wonderful job at fighting ignorance and certainly does it in a much calmer way than I ever could. And I think it’s shitty to put any of that on him - they were posting their tedious lies long before he joined, and they’ll likely still be posting when the Board software is subsumed by the Singularity. They’re remarkably consistent that way…almost like they’re not really here for the debate, you might say. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-iiandyiiii/760781/176 "2016-07-27T11:29:12Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > That’s entirely on the racists. What, you think we should just let their fraudulent racist fuckery go unanswered? On _this_ board of all places? Have you _read_ our masthead? I think **iiandyiiii** does a wonderful job at fighting ignorance and certainly does it in a much calmer way than I ever could. And I think it’s shitty to put any of that on him - they were posting their tedious lies long before he joined, and they’ll likely still be posting when the Board software is subsumed by the Singularity. They’re remarkably consistent that way…almost like they’re not really here for the debate, you might say. He’s not fighting ignorance, he’s playing the rube to trolls. The end result is there will be a race realist thread on the first page of Great Debates pretty much all the time. Many pages long, many views, nothing to convince anyone of anything, and essentially giving the impression that people have a fetish for race realism on this board. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-iiandyiiii/760781/177 "2016-07-27T11:59:41Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > He’s not fighting ignorance, he’s playing the rube to trolls. The end result is there will be a race realist thread on the first page of Great Debates pretty much all the time. Many pages long, many views, nothing to convince anyone of anything, and essentially giving the impression that people have a fetish for race realism on this board. I think a small but significant part of this board does seem to have this fetish, especially if we include all the race-realist hobbyists (those who won’t outright express agreement, but cry foul when the race realists’ arguments are dismissed and refuted). I’ll try to do a better job of not feeding thread hijacks, but I’m not going to completely stop trying to refute bad and racist arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-iiandyiiii/760781/178 "2016-07-27T12:19:25Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > _**What is right for us as individuals and society? > That we should be who we are, > Or that we should be forced to be what we are not > For the comfort of the small minded?**_ Is that a quote? I’ve been checking if it was but Unca Google is being lazier than me. As an aside, lately I’m ending up in the website of The Atlantic so often I’m starting to think I really should subscribe… ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-iiandyiiii/760781/179 "2016-07-27T12:25:57Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I don’t think you’re a “racist” because we disagree about a variety of issues. You’re a bigot because you discriminate against people who do not and have not harmed you in any demonstrable way except to challenge your myopic views of the world. Liberals are clearly the real bigots for calling people who do and say bigoted things “bigots”. > [@elucidator](#): > > When \*\*facism \*\*comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross. > > - Sinclair Lewis What kind of Facism are we talking here? “Dirk Benedict” Facism or “Bradley Cooper” Facism? Oh, and **iiandyiiii** is a bad, bad person, for reasons I will think of eventually. If I get around to it. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-iiandyiiii/760781/180 "2016-07-27T12:52:31Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Is that a quote? I’ve been checking if it was but Unca Google is being lazier than me. A quote of me, yes. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-iiandyiiii/760781.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-iiandyiiii/760781.md?page=10)