# Pitting Jane Says and Terminator Gold 3000 - by Manhattan's Request **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 2, 2003, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-jane-says-and-terminator-gold-3000-by-manhattans-request/152382 "2003-02-02T23:38:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-jane-says-and-terminator-gold-3000-by-manhattans-request/152382/21 "2003-02-03T07:29:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RTFirefly \* > \*\* But I don’t know anyone who tried to give up pot, but the drug wouldn’t let them go in any manner like the way tobacco doesn’t want to let you go. \*\* You should get out more. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-jane-says-and-terminator-gold-3000-by-manhattans-request/152382/22 "2003-02-03T09:08:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RexDart \* > \*\*I dunno, but maybe the best way to pass a drug test is to not use drugs. I mean, I’m just speculating there, but that seems pretty foolproof. \*\* You’d think so, wouldn’t you? [Will poppy-seed bagels cause you to fail a drug test?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_116.html) Quoth Cecil: “Let’s not beat around the bush. The answer to your question is yes” Sorry to disappoint. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-jane-says-and-terminator-gold-3000-by-manhattans-request/152382/23 "2003-02-03T10:54:16Z")
OK, so RexDart should have said “not to use drugs or eat poppy-seed bagels”. Got everything covered now? ---
**Author:** ![samarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4da419/32.png) [@samarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samarm)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-jane-says-and-terminator-gold-3000-by-manhattans-request/152382/24 "2003-02-03T11:11:45Z")
No, don’t think it’s all “covered”. 1st: Tobacco is more addictive than mary jane. That’s if mary jane is addictive at all. Just because a media company reports a story that it is, doesn’t make it so. 2nd: There are plenty more addictive drugs legally available. How about alcohol? Personally, I’d rather be on a plane where the pilot had smoked a joint, than on a plane where the pilot was wrecked on half a bottle of Jack. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-jane-says-and-terminator-gold-3000-by-manhattans-request/152382/25 "2003-02-03T11:14:29Z")
Sorry, what is a “head shop”? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-jane-says-and-terminator-gold-3000-by-manhattans-request/152382/26 "2003-02-03T11:23:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jacksen9 \* > We were considering testing our athletes. I talked with a good friend of mine that used to own part of a drug testing company. She said there is virtually no way to beat a drug test. > > We have a severe drug problem in our high school…_[snip]_ … I asked about drug testing and if they felt this was an effective way to disuade casual drug use and identify drug abusers that needed intervention. The two kids that responded both said the drug tests could be beat and that they had used and tested clean more than once. Someone in detox may be tested a couple hundred times before their treatment is over. If the test is 98% accurate, and you’re tested 200 times, 4 times it’s going to give a wrong answer. That’s doesn’t mean a successful cheat, it means no test is perfect. Also, not every positive result is reported to the patient/client in every situation. Some interpret this as a succesful “cheat”. It’s not. Just because they aren’t confronted doesn’t mean their use was unknown. > [@](#): > > Yet, you have to wonder how these drug test beating products remain on the market if they don’t work. It seems the word would get out that they do not work. It’s like any other form of quackery. People are desparate, they WANT to believe. > [@](#): > > Sometimes I think these companies say they are testing just to eliminate some possible drug using applicants. Then they may just throw the sample in the dumpster or something. The drug user thinks they passed but in reality, the test was not administered. Yes, that happens, too. > [@](#): > > We were told that we could test our athletes for $20.00 each. Would this be a reliable test? I prefer the ones where the sample is sent to an actual lab over the “test strip” ones because, as I pointed out, test strips are least reliable. If you’re going to test, do it right. Reliability involves more than just the test itself. Unless the urination is actually witnessed by someone who is familiar with the most common ways to cheat by substitution, someone is going to figure out how to swap dirty urine for clean. If you aren’t willing to insist on witnessed urination a LOT of kids will eventually wind up cheating. Of course, a lot of people find this intrusive and demeaning, and it is. It’s going to be a hard sell. The kids will scream - heck, I would, too. No one said drug testing was fun. Is it _possible_ to cheat on a witnessed drug test? Yes, actually it is. But I’m not going to tell you how. And I doubt the average high school kid would be willing to do what was required - unless he or she was actually an addict. ---
**Author:** ![samarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4da419/32.png) [@samarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samarm)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-jane-says-and-terminator-gold-3000-by-manhattans-request/152382/27 "2003-02-03T11:30:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Broomstick \* > \*\*Is it _possible_ to cheat on a witnessed drug test? Yes, actually it is. But I’m not going to tell you how. And I doubt the average high school kid would be willing to do what was required - unless he or she was actually an addict. \*\* Can we clarify what we are talking about here? There is a _world_ of difference between a heroin addict and a joint smoker. Cannabis is not addictive, in my experience. I have smoked occasionally, when I was younger. At no point did I feel that I _needed_ to get another joint. Smoking a join may make you feel sleepy, giggly, tired. Alcohol can make you feel aggresive, out of control, confrontational. Lets get things in perspective. The point is (in answering the OP), if you need to pass a drugs test, don’t smoke any _illegal_ drugs for a couple of weeks before the test. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-jane-says-and-terminator-gold-3000-by-manhattans-request/152382/28 "2003-02-03T11:40:01Z")
> [@](#): > > samarm wrote: > Smoking a join may make you feel sleepy, giggly, tired. Alcohol can make you feel aggresive, out of control, confrontational. Lets get things in perspective. Frankly, I don’t want either types under the influence while driving a car, or performing certain vital tasks. The problem is, alcohol isn’t illegal. I don’t drink, and frankly I wouldn’t give a rat’s ass if it was illegal. But it isn’t. Other drugs are, however, so testing will be done on them. > [@](#): > > The point is (in answering the OP), if you need to pass a drugs test, don’t smoke any _illegal_ drugs for a couple of weeks before the test. That’s excellent advice. And if someone is just absolutely unable or unwilling to do that, (and apparently many are) then they have a drug problem that they need to resolve. If they are too out of control or too stupid to know to not partake for a few weeks before a test, I have little sympathy for them. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-jane-says-and-terminator-gold-3000-by-manhattans-request/152382/29 "2003-02-03T11:42:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RTFirefly \* > Y’all were specifically discussing marijuana. Did it become an addictive drug sometime in the past 30 years? It didn’t used to be, back in the day when I occasionally smoked the stuff. If your marijuana smoking causes a problem, it’s a problem. Hell, if you drink coffee to the point it causes health problems, keeps you up all night, and costs so much you can’t buy decent food or pay your rent you have a serious drug problem. > [@](#): > > If, as you and Qadgop have said, THC residue hangs around the body for three weeks, exactly what is so reprehensible about cheating a drug test? If you are applying for a job, and find yourself confronted with a drug test, exactly what’s the problem with trying to hide the traces of having gotten wrecked the Friday before last? I’m speaking from a **moral** POV here, since “reprehensible slime puddles” is that sort of language. The problem is that there is no way to distinguish between someone still high and someone who used last week. There’s no way to know from the test that you use once a month versus once every hour. In our “zero tolerance” neo-prohibition once a month is as bad as once an hour. I don’t _personally_ agree with that stance (a point I keep repeating and which keeps getting lost on some folks) but that happens to be the law these days, and running afoul of the law can cause you definite problems. > [@](#): > > If you simply believe that disobeying the law, whatever the law may be, is immoral, then I won’t attempt to argue with you Nope, don’t believe that - but I also think you need a damn good reason to justify - on a moral level - breaking the law. If you get caught, there are consequences you will suffer, however morally justifiable your actions may have been. > [@](#): > > I am glad you gave up drinking _in the hours immediately preceding your flights_. But if your standards are such that, if you fly a plane, you shouldn’t drink _anytime_, then please don’t be a sanctimonious twit and expect everyone else to “adhere to the same high standards.” Go back and re-read my post. I did NOT say I gave up drinking entirely. And I haven’t. But since I refuse to drink and drive (from a moral stance as much as a legal one) that elminates most of the work week and refuse to drink and fly that eliminates most of the weekend. (FAA rules are a minimum of 8 hours “bottle to throttle”, and they suggest 24 - which I happen to agree with because the _effects_ of alcohol continue even after you are no longer drunk. This may not be a problem with your car, but it can affect a pilot flying a plane). That means the drinking happens during times like Thanksgiving, or this New Year’s where I spent the night at the party location. We did have booze available at the airport Christmas party, but it didn’t get opened until after the flying was over, which is perfectly legal and moral and proper. > [@](#): > > Maybe you shouldn’t be able to buy it at your corner drugstore, but those 735,000 arrests per year aren’t the answer either. And on that we are in agreement. I believe in treatment over incarceration for drug abuse. I put my money where my mouth is for four years. What have YOU done to help solve the problem? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-jane-says-and-terminator-gold-3000-by-manhattans-request/152382/30 "2003-02-03T11:48:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by istara \* > Sorry, what is a “head shop”? A place where you go to purchase such things as rolling papers for joints, bongs, pipes, and other items useful for using, lumped under “drug paraphenalia” by the cops. Also pro-drug artwork including posters, clothing, and bumper stickers. And products claiming to help you cheat drug tests. If they don’t _actually_ sell illegal drugs the shops are legal, but considered sleazy by many and viewed with a great deal of suspicion by the authorities. ---
**Author:** ![samarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4da419/32.png) [@samarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samarm)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-jane-says-and-terminator-gold-3000-by-manhattans-request/152382/31 "2003-02-03T11:58:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Broomstick \* > **If your marijuana smoking causes a problem, it’s a problem. Hell, if you drink coffee to the point it causes health problems, keeps you up all night, and costs so much you can’t buy decent food or pay your rent you have a serious drug problem.** I agree with the gist of your posts, but I have a problem specifically with you singling out marijuana as an evil drug. You are implying that marijuana is so addictive that people have to spend their rent to get another fix. I’m sorry, but this is bullshit IMO. Poeple smoke marijuana for exactly the same reason that poeple drink beer. They like to relax, get high for a while. They don’t do anyone any harm. Maybe you’d be suprised how many people smoke a joint at the weekend, and go on to start work on Monday morning as lawyers, programmers (is this a suprise to you?), cops (yes, cops), delivery drivers, etc etc. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-jane-says-and-terminator-gold-3000-by-manhattans-request/152382/32 "2003-02-03T12:00:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Broomstick \* > If they don’t _actually_ sell illegal drugs the shops are legal, but considered sleazy by many and viewed with a great deal of suspicion by the authorities. Just as an addendum, in some locations even bongs and the like are illegal. Shops might then sell these under the counter instead, or might just provide whatever else they can that’s still legal. ---
**Author:** ![In\_Conceivable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4bbf92/32.png) [@In\_Conceivable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/In_Conceivable)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-jane-says-and-terminator-gold-3000-by-manhattans-request/152382/33 "2003-02-03T12:15:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by samarm \* > \*\*2nd: There are plenty more addictive drugs legally available. How about alcohol? Personally, I’d rather be on a plane where the pilot had smoked a joint, than on a plane where the pilot was wrecked on half a bottle of Jack. \*\* :eek: I would rather not be on either plane thank-you-very-much. Alcohol may be legal, but it is illegal for a pilot to fly after drinking about amount of Jack. ---
**Author:** ![In\_Conceivable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4bbf92/32.png) [@In\_Conceivable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/In_Conceivable)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-jane-says-and-terminator-gold-3000-by-manhattans-request/152382/34 "2003-02-03T12:16:29Z")
any amount of Jack was (of course) what I meant to say. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-jane-says-and-terminator-gold-3000-by-manhattans-request/152382/35 "2003-02-03T13:19:51Z")
Thanks **Broomstick**! I have never heard of one of these before. I have visited “new agey” places selling bits of paraphernalia, but the only really blatant place was in Nimbin, Australia, which is famous anyway for drug use. Here there’s nothing like that, but shisha pipes are totally legal (for tobacco only!) and on sale everywhere. They make nice souvenirs. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-jane-says-and-terminator-gold-3000-by-manhattans-request/152382/36 "2003-02-03T15:15:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RTFirefly \* > \*\*Personal testimony is a valid form of evidence. Sometimes it’s more accurate than the medical authorities. \*\* As **Gr8kat** noted, this is a bogus statement. Personal testimonials are what sellers of all manner of worthless drugs and remedies have been hiding behind for centuries, from 19th-century patent medicines to body part-enlarging products. Just because some quack Internet business tells you that suckers A and B lost weight, grew hair or found a better sex life by drinking a quart of cider vinegar a day doesn’t mean the stuff has any medical value. Controlled, reputable clinical studies are what you should look for. If drinking some crap makes you think you’ve beaten a drug test, whoopee for you. It’s possible you could achieve the same frequency of success by wearing dark-colored clothes or eating romaine lettuce. Anyone who relies on your “personal testimony” rather than solid evidence is throwing their money away. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-jane-says-and-terminator-gold-3000-by-manhattans-request/152382/37 "2003-02-03T16:41:36Z")
**samarm** from my experience (running a correction center for 14 years), the ‘addicts’ that would go the length to beat a visual drug screening were typically heroin, cocaine. Alcoholics damn near always got caught. (and no, I’m not going to tell you how they did it either, though **Broomstick** I _did_ come up w/a system that females in particular couldn’t fake. ) I do in fact believe that there are those folks who have “gotten by” on tests. But I write it off to luck, poor test quality, etc. I know there were times we tossed specimins vs. testing them and I suspect that’s happening to some folks who believe these things work. Remember each test is designed to **minimize** false positives (testing a negative sample and judging it positive) but also has a high threashold for false negatives (testing a positive sample and judging it negative). ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-jane-says-and-terminator-gold-3000-by-manhattans-request/152382/38 "2003-02-03T17:19:17Z")
This was at least hinted at above, but worth pointing out. Some companies have policies that all applicants be tested for drugs. Some then have a policy that a failed drug test results in a no hire. Others do not. I know of three big companies that have knowingly given jobs to people who failed their drug test. If the applicant is the right one for a hard to fill job, sometimes a failed drug test may be overlooked. Or if its a high turnover situation, sometimes the employee may be hired anyway, and then, if the drug use is problematic, may not make it past the probationary period - but if the drug use isn’t problematic, may be allowed to stay on. So being hired does not necessarily mean you had a successful flush and cheated the test. It may mean your employer is on to you, but doesn’t care enough. ---
**Author:** ![jane\_says](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/47e85d/32.png) [@jane\_says](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jane_says)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-jane-says-and-terminator-gold-3000-by-manhattans-request/152382/39 "2003-02-03T17:45:07Z")
I guess this is one of those situations where clearly we’ll have to agree to disagree. I know from personal experience and the experiences of those I know that the product works. If you never smoke dope and never need to take a urine test, then you can argue all you like about it not working, but you have no evidence that your claim is true. Saying “It’s snake oil” or “That won’t pass you, but I know a way that will. Unfortunately, it’s classified information, for you see I developed this system…” To me it’s like arguing whether God exists - pointless for both sides. If you say your sister’s cancer went into remission because you prayed to God for it to happen, and I say no way, God doesn’t exist, it was pure coincidence, we’re also stuck at an impasse. I see this argument the same way. **Broomstick** , I am still waiting for an apology for your use of outrageous hyperbole and personal insults. I have never advocated selling crack to toddlers, beating grandmas, kicking puppies, or anything else where your foul characterization of me might have been suitable. The things you said were unwarranted and entirely out of line. You know that as well as I do. Do the right thing. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-jane-says-and-terminator-gold-3000-by-manhattans-request/152382/40 "2003-02-03T17:57:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by samarm \* > \*\*Cannabis is not addictive, in my experience. \*\* Well now. Cannabis is not physiologically addictive, but it can certainly be psychologically addictive. One of my friends smokes up everyday. He smokes about 5 - 6 joints a day, at work. (He steps outside to toke up). If he doesn’t smoke up, hes a mess. He can’t function. Hes jittery and high-strung and useless. Obviously, in his profession, his drug use is not a problem - he’s quite successful. Unless you knew him, you wouldn’t know that he was stoned out of his gourd all the time. He’s quite coherent. However, I certainly wouldn’t want this person flying a plane I was on. Or driving a train or bus, for that matter. I like to drink a glass of wine once and a while. However, just because \*\*_I[b/]_ drink in moderation doesn’t mean there are no alcoholics. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-jane-says-and-terminator-gold-3000-by-manhattans-request/152382.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-jane-says-and-terminator-gold-3000-by-manhattans-request/152382.md?page=3)