# Pitting Max\_S **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 8, 2022, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074 "2022-02-08T00:26:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/181 "2022-03-10T17:18:55Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > IIRC you distinguished between harm, trauma, and psychic violence. YDNRC. I mentioned all 3, I did not distinguish between them. And I used the specific phase “psychic trauma” by itself, anyway, so take your weaseling and shove it. And you did not answer the specific question I just asked, either, Monsieur Belette. > [@MrDibble](#): > > What the fuck is the “strict legal sense” of _ **psychic** trauma_ , Mister NotALawyer? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/182 "2022-03-10T17:22:21Z")
Okay. So psychic trauma, rather than psychological trauma. What’s the difference? If it’s not leaving a long-lasting effect on the psyche (i.e. not a disorder), it’s still not trauma is it? ~Max ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/183 "2022-03-10T17:25:20Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > What’s the difference? Why, have you posted a “strict legal definition” of psychological trauma that I missed, Herra Lumikko? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/184 "2022-03-10T17:27:40Z")
Psychic trauma, psychological trauma, same thing. They both refer to adverse events that leave long-lasting effects on the psyche. That means causing or triggering a mental disorder. [Here](https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/psychic+trauma), you pedant. > **psychic trauma** a psychologically upsetting experience that produces an emotional or mental disorder or otherwise has lasting negative effects on a person’s thoughts, feelings, or behavior. You’re still asking me to assume Black Americans as a race are collectively susceptible to mental disorders, which is, IMO, racist and wrong. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/185 "2022-03-10T17:28:31Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > **MrDibble** was, or so I think, and he pitted me for it. If you’re saying for most of the pile-ons my words are being taken out of context, that takes the edge off. I think what you mean is that you were talking about a court case, and you think there’s some sort of rules of order that mean that MrDibble should have known, cared, and only engaged you in that context, because a close reading of your personal post history would have demonstrated your intent. I don’t think anybody else reading that thread would assume any given post was only about what was legally actionable. The discussion in that thread was about whether the email was racist, whether it was threatening, whether it was OK, and as a corollary, whether saying it _isn’t_ racist or _isn’t_ a threat is OK. I mean, c’mon, man. If blind lady justice herself descended into the thread and rendered the absolute immutable legal judgment that the defendants should get off scot-free, do you think anybody’s opinion about whether it was bad or wrong would change? They would say ok, exhibit number seven hundred million that the law is a ass, and they would continue their discussion. You know that, right? ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/186 "2022-03-10T17:31:29Z")
It has already been determined that conservatives are immune to embarrassment. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/187 "2022-03-10T17:40:09Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > psychologically upsetting experience that produces an emotional or mental disorder **or otherwise** has lasting negative effects on a person’s thoughts, feelings, or behavior. See there where disorders _are distinguished from other effects?_\* Not every reaction to psychic trauma is “mental disorder”, but I’m sure that’s the brush you’d like to tar the response with. Just another “Mad Black Woman”, amirite? > [@Max\_S](#): > > You’re still asking me to assume Black Americans as a race are collectively susceptible to mental disorders, which is, IMO, racist and wrong. Man, fuck you. American Blacks are no _more_ susceptible to psychic trauma than American Whites. Whites in America just haven’t been put into the same circumstances for generation after generation, continuing to today. _Fuck_ you for that transparent attempt at playing “No, you’re the real racist”, every racist weasel’s favourite game. Doesn’t work with “How come you can say that word”, won’t work with “what, you saying Blacks are crazy just because they’re Black” either, містер ласка. \* Yeah, _that’s_ how you distinguish terms, asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/188 "2022-03-10T17:40:47Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > I think what you mean is that you were talking about a court case, and you think there’s some sort of rules of order that mean that MrDibble should have known, cared, and only engaged you in that context How can I look at _his_ posts in any other context? > [@WV black lawmaker gets email with KKK graphic and anti-abortion message...also sues. Is this right?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wv-black-lawmaker-gets-email-with-kkk-graphic-and-anti-abortion-message-also-sues-is-this-right/959845/61): > > There’s your _ **mens rea** _ . Not actual intention to commit violence, but actual intention to create the perception of such. > [@WV black lawmaker gets email with KKK graphic and anti-abortion message...also sues. Is this right?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wv-black-lawmaker-gets-email-with-kkk-graphic-and-anti-abortion-message-also-sues-is-this-right/959845/67): > > **I’ve been talking about the _actual_ case** , the one she _did_ bring because she _did_ feel threatened. > [@WV black lawmaker gets email with KKK graphic and anti-abortion message...also sues. Is this right?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wv-black-lawmaker-gets-email-with-kkk-graphic-and-anti-abortion-message-also-sues-is-this-right/959845/108): > > > [@WV black lawmaker gets email with KKK graphic and anti-abortion message...also sues. Is this right?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wv-black-lawmaker-gets-email-with-kkk-graphic-and-anti-abortion-message-also-sues-is-this-right/959845/103): > > > > I don’t think it is outrageous, indecent, a threat of violence, or otherwise **sufficient for damages and a restraining order.** > > What you, a non-Black woman, think is “indecent” or “outrageous” doesn’t really signify. _She_ says she perceived it as a threat, that she is literally shaken and in fear for her life. > [@WV black lawmaker gets email with KKK graphic and anti-abortion message...also sues. Is this right?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wv-black-lawmaker-gets-email-with-kkk-graphic-and-anti-abortion-message-also-sues-is-this-right/959845/144): > > > [@WV black lawmaker gets email with KKK graphic and anti-abortion message...also sues. Is this right?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wv-black-lawmaker-gets-email-with-kkk-graphic-and-anti-abortion-message-also-sues-is-this-right/959845/142): > > > > The question is whether a person sending the email would or should have known the email is certain or substantially certain to cause trauma. > > They _should_ have. It’s the “ **reasonable person” standard** writ large. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/189 "2022-03-10T17:43:03Z")
I’ve definitely been talking about the court case. But I’ve been talking about what the law _should_ be if it was true to its intent, not the watered-down version Whiteness is probably going to serve Walker. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/190 "2022-03-10T17:51:38Z")
In the other thread I tried to come up with an analogy that might be **close** to an equivalent of what this woman went through, but from a white perspective. It’s not easy, because there really isn’t anything. White people just haven’t faced race-based terrorism on a large scale, anywhere in the world. So instead, I proposed a scenario based on cultural differences instead. In my hypothetical situation, I came up with story where a white person in the Middle East (who was the only westerner in his group) was sent an email with 9/11 imagery from another person from the Middle East, calling the man a terrorist as bad as Al Qaeda. That was the best I could do. I think a reasonable person in that situation might be afraid for their safety, even if there was no explicit threat in the email. I don’t think that’s unreasonable, and I wouldn’t consider it simply “stress”. Stress is something you deal with as a part of life. Fearing for your life is more than that. Just calling that sort of thing “stress” seemed offensive to me. If I was in that situation, and someone said, “Oh that’s stress”, I would be royally pissed off. It’s extremely tone deaf, unempathetic, and when you’re talking along racial lines, it really makes you look like a racist. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/191 "2022-03-10T17:52:21Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > See there where disorders _are distinguished from other effects?_ \* > Not every reaction to psychic trauma is “mental disorder”, but I’m sure that’s the brush you’d like to tar the response with. Yes, I suppose I hadn’t accounted for a traumatic event in which your psyche comes out functioning _better_ rather than worse. In fact I _do_ think people of color are more psychologically resilient. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Man, fuck you. American Blacks are no _more_ susceptible to psychic trauma than American Whites. Whites in America just haven’t been put into the same circumstances for generation after generation, continuing to today. So why would I assume a Black person is going to suffer from _psychic trauma_ when they see a picture of a Klansman, without regard to how the picture is being used? Are you saying anybody in similar circumstances would be traumatized? Jews with images of Nazis, even when the message is a political attack comparing the Jewish recipient to Nazis? ~Max ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/192 "2022-03-10T17:57:27Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Yes, I suppose I hadn’t accounted for a traumatic event in which your psyche comes out functioning _better_ rather than worse. Racist motherfucker thinks he’s funny. > [@Max\_S](#): > > So why would I assume a Black person is going to suffer from _psychic trauma_ when they see a picture of a Klansman Because that’s what they tell you? > [@Max\_S](#): > > Are you saying anybody in similar circumstances would be traumatized? Jews with images of Nazis? Aah, yes, the many, many American Jews still having to teach their kids not to backchat the police. That well-known phenomenon of Driving While Jewish. Yes, Jewish trauma and Black trauma are indeed interchangeable. Dumb fuck. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/193 "2022-03-10T17:58:13Z")
Props to the motherfucker for more successfully shitpicking his own putting to death. And shame on you for letting him. This is a pit thread, not Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/194 "2022-03-10T18:00:24Z")
I’m certainly not debating the shitstain. point-and-laugh is not debate. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/195 "2022-03-10T18:03:58Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Because that’s what they tell you? _After_ the email was sent. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Aah, yes, the many, many American Jews still having to teach their kids not to backchat the police. That well-known phenomenon of Driving While Jewish. What does that have to do with seeing an image of a KKK member? ~Max ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/196 "2022-03-10T18:06:17Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > _After_ the email was sent. So, back to “she’s lying”, is it? > [@Max\_S](#): > > What does that have to do with seeing an image of a KKK member? Maybe you just really are this dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/197 "2022-03-10T18:09:17Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > So, back to “she’s lying”, is it? ??? Not at all what I meant. Me: If I were in his place how could I know sending this email to a Black person would cause psychic trauma? You: Because that’s what Black people tell you. Me: They only tell me after I’ve sent it You: Back to calling them liars??? ~Max ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/198 "2022-03-10T18:11:02Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Me: They only tell me after I’ve sent it "Because I am a dumb racist and don’t know any Black people, and have never heard any other Black people describe what living under White supremacy is like. Black Lives Matter? What’s that?" ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/199 "2022-03-10T18:11:57Z")
To be fair to the defendant he probably doesn’t know any Black people, we are talking about West Virginia. And it’s been a long time since I’ve talked politics with a Black person (in person) myself. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/200 "2022-03-10T18:12:22Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > How can I look at _his_ posts in any other context? It seems increasingly possible that you literally can’t. But someone else would look at the words in them and think to himself, “ah, I see… he thinks that the specific context of being a black woman in an extraordinarily racist American state and receiving pictures of literally the literal Klan constitutes a type of intimidation that I am not able to personally understand, and that my personal incomprehension is not evidence of what is reasonable. Perhaps I am not as good at divining the meaning of the experiences of other real-world beings as I believed.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074.md?page=11)