# Pitting Max\_S **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 8, 2022, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074 "2022-02-08T00:26:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/501 "2022-05-19T20:24:43Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Obviously there are some real innate _physical_ differences that do correlate with skin color Like fuck there are. The only innate physical difference that correlates with skin colour is skin colour. > [@Atamasama](#): > > Black people are prone to Sickle Cell Anemia. No, they’re not. People whose ancestors lived in a certain geographic area are. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/502 "2022-05-19T20:25:11Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > > [@Max\_S](#): > > > > It would be invalid because of these sections in the federal constitution, > > > > > > nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law > > So, are you willing to retract **everything** you said about helping a slave? Because slaves were deprived of all of that, based solely on their skin color. Yeah but that was before the 14th amendment was passed. So morality changed when the 14th amendment happened. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/503 "2022-05-19T20:27:30Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Like fuck there are. The only innate physical difference that correlates with skin colour is skin colour. Thank you. I was wondering why that post was left hanging. (Or maybe Riemann was only referring to eye color, hair color, and melanoma? If so, they should have said so, because as it is their post is pretty bad.) ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/504 "2022-05-19T20:30:07Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Like fuck there are. The only innate physical difference that correlates with skin colour is skin colour. I mean skin color correlates with certain physical differences. My family extraction is almost all British Isles on both sides, I am pale white and had lighter colored hair before it went gray. I have had several minor melanomas removed from my body since age 30. Low melanin content in the skin absolutely makes you more prone to this, and since it is genuinely related to lack of melanin, it is directly correlated with skin color. The same lack of melanin leads to very easy sunburning (which directly of course, relates to skin color.) When I grew up I spent much of my time outdoors and then joined the military, I just let myself burn for many years, now I don’t go out without sunblock, but I did a lot of damage to my skin that, had my skin had more melanin in it, would have been lessened quite a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/505 "2022-05-19T20:30:32Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > So, are you willing to retract **everything** you said about helping a slave? Because slaves were deprived of all of that, based solely on their skin color. If the original hypothetical was moved from 1858 to 1869, then yes. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/506 "2022-05-19T20:30:41Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > maybe Riemann was only referring to eye color, hair color, and melanoma Not even the first two. The last is a consequence of the melanin part. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/507 "2022-05-19T20:33:12Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I mean skin color correlates with certain physical differences. Except it doesn’t. The two you list - melanoma and sunburn - are just a consequence of the melanin thing, not a separate difference. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/508 "2022-05-19T20:33:38Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > A society based on horrific immorality is not one I owe _shit_ to. I don’t owe them allegiance, I don’t owe them the honor of leaving them. I don’t owe them shit, and any claim to the contrary is shit. > > Society is just a bunch of people, and people are a bunch of jumped-up primates wearing clothing and making agreements with one another. I’m not bound by agreements that are shitty. I think you misunderstand me. I’m not bound by the agreeableness of a shitty agreement, but by the force that backs it up. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/509 "2022-05-19T20:35:32Z")
I mean but your skin color is essentially a function of how “much” melanin you have, right? I don’t think it is possible to be light skinned and have high amounts of melanin, or vice versa? My understanding is there is basically only one selective advantage to light skin (and many disadvantages)–that you absorb UV radiation better due to less melanin, which, when my ancestors actually lived in the high latitudes they inhabited when this trait was selected for, had some benefits for vitamin D synthesis and calcium production etc, but in modern times just makes me less equipped to be outside without a thick layer of sunblock than someone whose ancestors have skin that wasn’t evolved for high latitudes. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/510 "2022-05-19T20:36:06Z")
True, not even these things (hair and eye color) are inherently bound to skin color — they’re just partially correlated (looking at the current world population as a whole) due to the accidents of human geohistory (i.e., no more remarkable or interesting than saying “most people in Ancient Greece wrote with letters borrowed from Phonoecian”). A hijack, anyway, that ends here. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/511 "2022-05-19T20:37:12Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I think you misunderstand me. I’m not bound by the agreeableness of a shitty agreement, but by the force that backs it up. or is it this? > [@Max\_S](#): > > I think it is wrong to be a party to an illegal act ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/512 "2022-05-19T20:37:29Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I mean but your skin color is essentially a function of how “much” melanin you have, right? Yes, “skin colour” (light to dark) is the same as saying “skin melanin content” (low to high). ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/513 "2022-05-19T20:38:43Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > True, not even these things (hair and eye color) are inherently bound to skin color — they’re just partially correlated due to the accidents of human geohistory Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/514 "2022-05-19T20:38:44Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > do you rat out the little girl who doesn’t want to give birth to her half sister? The most moral course would be to rat her father out _after_ the abortion so the state can’t unlawfully force her to carry the child to term. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/515 "2022-05-19T20:38:59Z")
Yeah, I mean I took Riemann’s comments to essentially be talking about things consequent to that, if he meant something else I guess that would be incorrect, he’ll have to clarify. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/516 "2022-05-19T20:40:49Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > > [@Max\_S](#): > > > > I’m not bound by the agreeableness of a shitty agreement, but by the force that backs it up. > > or is it this? > > > [@Max\_S](#): > > > > I think it is wrong to be a party to an illegal act Both. It is wrong to be a party to an illegal act due to the consequence of breaking the law; the duty to follow the law corresponds to the consequences of breaking it. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/517 "2022-05-19T20:42:16Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I think you misunderstand me. I’m not bound by the agreeableness of a shitty agreement, but by the force that backs it up. > > ~Max Max. We are talking about morality, not the _realpolitik_ action you end up taking. Turning in the slave is wrong. If you are so terrified of the tyrannical authorities that you feel like you have no choice, that has no bearing on whether the act of turning the slave in was a moral one or not. It may mean you made an amoral decision for an unserstandable reason, but it doesn’t change the underlying morality of the act. I take it you disagree with that? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/518 "2022-05-19T20:43:07Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > If you are so terrified of the tyrannical authorities that you feel like you have no choice You _always_ have a choice. I don’t get to cop out of moral responsibility for some atrocious action just because a gun is being held to my head. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/519 "2022-05-19T20:44:32Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I don’t get to cop out of some atrocious action just because a gun is being held to my head. They why would you refuse to help the escaping slave? You’re losing me here ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/520 "2022-05-19T20:45:36Z")
Sorry, see edit. > I don’t get to cop out **of moral responsibility** for some atrocious action just because a gun is being held to my head. ~Max [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074.md?page=27)