# Pitting Max\_S **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 8, 2022, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074 "2022-02-08T00:26:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/561 "2022-05-19T22:21:27Z")
@Riemann Ultimately Black and African are concepts which are too general and describe such a wide swath of humanity as to be misleading. As @Martin_Hyde previously mentioned, sickle cell trait [isn’t limited by, nor does it encompass, Black Africa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sickle_cell_distribution.jpg). Racializing sickle cell may be useful in America due to its unique racial history (with the descent of its Black population being historically from areas with high sickle cell trait, and the descent of its White population being from areas with low sickle cell trait). This racial history however doesn’t give you the power to generalize claims that race is indicative of sickle cell. This is expanding far beyond a loose generality of US ancestry, to misapply it to those who live outside of America; those who do not share America’s particular genetic legacies. @MrDibble is an African who lives in Africa. His racial identification and the resulting assumptions (relating to health risks) should be made upon **his actual heritage** not those of Americans. His disagreement is valid. Southern Africans do not share the same risks for sickle cell as Black Americans do (or like those non-Africans who come from Malaria prone regions do). This disagreement is a good example why racial generalities themselves are misleading. Their predictabilities are wrong and irrelevant on any global scale. Worse yet, is when assumptions made on racial grounds are often taken as truisms and get used without thought to their accuracy. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/562 "2022-05-19T22:29:27Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I believe the national identity is restricted to people who were, at the time, considered part of the nation. So those Native Americans who lived and died enemies of the United States will never, in my opinion, be part of the U.S. national identity. Well. Thank you for candor, I guess. Also, PLONK, I guess ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/563 "2022-05-19T22:30:36Z")
I’ve been saying this for months. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/564 "2022-05-19T22:38:06Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Also, PLONK, I guess PLONK? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/565 "2022-05-19T22:44:27Z")
Apparently, > Plonk is a Usenet jargon term for adding a particular poster to one’s kill file such that the poster’s future postings are completely ignored… The word is an example of onomatopoeia, intended to humorously represent the supposed sound of the user hitting the bottom of the kill file. It is also sometimes given as an acronym standing for Please Log Off, Net Kook, though this is likely a backronym. Other used expressions are “put lamer on killfile” and Please Leave Our Newsgroup: Killfile! It is also used as a verb: “I plonked that idiot”. So you see, these threads _can_ be educational. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/566 "2022-05-19T22:47:06Z")
**😁** ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2022, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/567 "2022-05-20T01:19:33Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > You can argue that the rule isn’t enforced, but no, this is not the forum for overt trolling. There is no forum for overt trolling. [The Pit has a higher bar to clear.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-miller-the-pit-warnings-and-trolling/775480/24) IOW, “up to a point”. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2022, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/568 "2022-05-20T02:19:46Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > The argument is almost Kantian, who, coincidentally (?) was an avowed racist for nearly his entire life. Sorry, I have to ask. I am generally familiar with Kant’s racism and his atrocious moral reasoning, but why do you say “nearly”? Is it only “nearly” because as a child he was too young yet to have articulated and avowed racist beliefs, or did he somehow rekant later in life? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2022, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/569 "2022-05-20T02:25:22Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > rekant Heh. 🙃 ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2022, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/570 "2022-05-20T02:29:57Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > Is it only “nearly” because as a child he was too young yet to have articulated and avowed racist beliefs, or did he somehow rekant later in life? I see what you did there 😉 His views moderated somewhat later in life. Not to the point he still wouldn’t be considered a racist today but to the point he thought European colonialism was misguided and that nations of other races should have, in principle, the right of self-determination, even if he thought Europeans were still superior in most ways. By 18th century standards, that’s positively progressive. So, I guess by 18th century standards, Max is an enlightened soul. Unfortunately for him (and us), it’s the 21st century and his beliefs are at least a century if not more out of date. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2022, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/571 "2022-05-20T02:36:30Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > So, I guess by 18th century standards, Max is an enlightened soul. Unfortunately for him (and us), it’s the 21st century and his beliefs are at least a century if not more out of date. I fear that in a couple more decades, seeing how things have been going lately, Max may yet be deemed “enlightened” by contemporary (future) standards. He certainly does seem to have a very strong Clarence Thomas vibe coming off him (in terms of his strained minimalist/government-power-should-be-limited-to-that-necessary-to-establish-a-fascist-regime-and-the-14th-amendment-is-a-superstition reading of the Constitution). ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2022, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/572 "2022-05-20T02:40:11Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Are you prepared to risk throwing your life away to help a stranger you find in your garage - even if you are pretty sure he’s innocent? Sheltering a fugitive from justice is _still_ a crime. You have a very strange and paradoxical definition of “justice”. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2022, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/573 "2022-05-20T02:43:36Z")
If somebody does not have the testicular fortitude to do the right thing, I would hope they’d have the personal integrity to admit their moral cowardice. I could understand that and could even sympathize - it’s not easy to have the courage of your convictions when there’s a gun in your face. But the insistence there’s justness and a moral principle involved in not only turning your back to the plight of a suffering person right in front of you but act as an accomplice and collaborator with slavetakers and Nazis is monstrous and delusional. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2022, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/574 "2022-05-20T02:53:45Z")
Yeah, I’m a wimp. And I’d like to think i would have hidden a runaway slave, but maybe I’d have been too frightened to do so. I know that I’m confessing cowardice, and not a virtue, though. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2022, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/575 "2022-05-20T02:56:58Z")
I do love revisiting old posts of mine, and I don’t think my views here has changed in 12 years. > [@Would it have been (morally) murder if a slave killed his master?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-been-morally-murder-if-a-slave-killed-his-master/564546/52): > > This is really a no brainer. > > Like **Der Trihs** , I’d even go as far as to say that I think a slave has every right to kill **anything** that stands in their way to gaining freedom. It isn’t even a matter of dead person’s level of sainthood or whatever… If they, legitimately, pose a threat to a slave’s escape from slavery then they’re ‘fair game;’ be them man, woman or child. > > Sick situation, but that’s not the slave’s fault. And in regards to someone who willingly turns in people to enslavement. > [@Would it have been (morally) murder if a slave killed his master?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-been-morally-murder-if-a-slave-killed-his-master/564546/80): > > > [@Would it have been (morally) murder if a slave killed his master?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-been-morally-murder-if-a-slave-killed-his-master/564546/71): > > > > So, if I live in a society with slavery, and I know that a particular slave has adopted your view, I would be morally justified (using your words–I don’t know what those words mean) if I killed that slave, right? > > No. You would morally justified in helping him/her escape. If you feared white-lead reprisals from doing that, then just simply get/stay out of the slave’s way. > > You try to stop/kill them? Then you are no longer even ‘an innocent bystander’ in my book; you even become a justifiable target (‘fair game’) for any anti-slaver wishing to make an example/statement. Really. Enslavement is no game. Its the matter of life or death, (or if you are deemed uppity) a long torturously painful death. And this is just looking at the individual, your family and friends are up for the exact same treatment for all their worldly time on this earth. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2022, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/576 "2022-05-20T03:10:33Z")
This guy has revealed himself as clearly as anyone can. He is a sociopath, apparently, among his other negative traits. Why are you still wasting your time with him? You’re only helping him spread his noxious views. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2022, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/577 "2022-05-20T03:10:46Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Really. Enslavement is no game. Its the matter of life or death, (or if you are deemed uppity) a long torturously painful death. And this is just looking at the individual, your family and friends are up for the exact same treatment for all their worldly time on this earth. What you guys don’t understand is that our young friend, the KKK’s Model Minority of the Year 2021, sees this as a PROPERTY issue, not a human rights issue. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2022, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/578 "2022-05-20T03:51:34Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Either 3 or 4 depending on circumstances not specified. …hypothetical. You are a black man, living in 1858 Vermont. You are hiding in a barn, having escaped from a plantation. A white man opens the door to the barn. Do you: 1. Immediately turn yourself in, because the law is the law, and you are breaking the law, and you have been caught, fair and square. 2. Appeal to the humanity of the person that opened the door, hoping that they let you stay for the night. 3. Kill them. Because…they were probably going to turn you in anyway, so what do you have to lose? ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2022, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/579 "2022-05-20T03:53:09Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Do you: > > 1. Immediately turn yourself in, because the law is the law, and you are breaking the law, and you have been caught, fair and square. Of course. If you resist, any harm that comes to you is your own fault. (This is sarcasm, hopefully it’s obvious, but with the kind of people who are tolerated on this board it may not be) ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2022, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/580 "2022-05-20T03:58:02Z")
1. Declare that as a sovereign citizen and a freeman on the land, the State of Vermont has no right to restrict your travel which is not involved in commerce. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074.md?page=30)