# Pitting Max\_S **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 8, 2022, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074 "2022-02-08T00:26:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 52
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/1021 "2024-08-26T16:13:08Z")
> [@scudsucker](#): > > I do prefer to engage with people who make the effort to appear intelligent. That’s your problem, you put value on verbosity over substance. That’s why you think Max is smart, he uses a lot of words to express his hate. ---
**Author:** ![FluffyBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@FluffyBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FluffyBob)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/1022 "2024-08-26T18:44:17Z")
I have to admit this is all informative to me. Was not aware of his legal contributions. I have pretty muched ignored his posts after reading the first few. I just assumed he was some arrogant square conservative teenager. Sort of a Ralph124c mkII. This toxic bloviating about homosexual rights and then crybaby persecution crap about being called on it sent me to check out this thread. No offense to Stranger, whose posts I always read, but generally the posters that feel the need to drop their name at the bottom of every communication come off a bit too self important. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/1023 "2024-08-26T18:50:33Z")
Hear, hear Regards, Great\_Antibob ---
**Author:** ![Jihi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jihi/32/17768_2.png) [@Jihi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jihi)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/1024 "2024-08-26T19:05:05Z")
Heh. I know what “regards” means. 😀 Speaking of “not lamented at all” self-important, former posters. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/1025 "2024-08-26T22:22:14Z")
IIRC, Max first drew my ire when he said that he would have turned in runaway slaves during the historical era when it was law. A conscience was apparently not as important in his value structure as was the need to follow the law. That probably really was a prevalent attitude in the time but pretty yucky to say it without misgivings now. Regards, Red Wiggler ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/1026 "2024-08-26T22:53:53Z")
He gave in on that though when I showed him proof some states ignored the law too. But it was still really shitty that that’s what it took. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/1027 "2024-08-26T22:58:09Z")
It’s just one in a very long list of times he’s expressed the view that whatever is legal, no matter how repugnant, is moral. As I understand it his mother is Chinese. He’d still be okay with a Chinese Exclusion Act. His mother being considered an undesirable is a small matter, as long as the law was passed through whatever constitutional provisions were in place at the time, and there was colorable rationale for passing it. This is the kind of reasoning that impresses some people! So selfless. He’d see his own family sold into slavery so long as the laws permitting it were properly passed. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/1028 "2024-08-27T18:00:46Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > IIRC, Max first drew my ire when he said that he would have turned in runaway slaves during the historical era when it was law. A conscience was apparently not as important in his value structure as was the need to follow the law. That really strikes my memory as more of a **Smapti** thing. Could you go find the relevant quote, please, so we can clear this up? As it happens, I made the determination many years ago that if **Max\_S** were to post something I needed to read, it would probably be by accident, and would likely be posted by someone else as well. So I PLONKed him. Unfortunately, a lot of Dopers still respond to him, so if I want to understand their posts, I have to unhide his. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/1029 "2024-08-27T18:05:59Z")
> [@Pitting Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/691): > > I think there might be something here that was lost along the way. It’s 1858 in Vermont and I hear noises coming from the barn. I grab my gun to find out what’s going on, and after a warning shot the fugitive slave reveals himself. I set down my gun and listen to his story, etc. To my knowledge the law doesn’t require me to turn in the fugitive, and is satisfied with my not sheltering him. So by default I won’t turn him in, but rather just tell him to get off my property. Under what circums… ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/1030 "2024-08-27T18:06:04Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > > [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > > > IIRC, Max first drew my ire when he said that he would have turned in runaway slaves during the historical era when it was law. A conscience was apparently not as important in his value structure as was the need to follow the law. > > That really strikes my memory as more of a **Smapti** thing. Could you go find the relevant quote, please, so we can clear this up? Here you go, from upthread. Material before and after as well, but should be a representative sample. > [@Max\_S](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > So why is it OK for you to do that under the hateful Nazi regime, but it is not OK for a slave to do that under the hateful Antebellum regime? > > The social compact falls apart when I’m declared a non-person due to no fault of my own. It’s okay for a slave to flee under a hateful Antebellum regime - I won’t blame him. > > But for me to break the compact to help the runaway slave, or for the German citizen to break his or her compact to help the Jew, is a different matter. > > ~Max ETA - simulpost with @Joey_P - but there’s a TON of similar material in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/1031 "2024-08-27T18:18:05Z")
Okay, thanks. I may have been conflating a submission to the Fugitive Slave Act with an inclination to turn Jews over to the Gestapo. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/1032 "2024-08-27T18:47:10Z")
Now, now. He’s not inclined to do it, it’s a moral imperative. He doesn’t have a choice. So he’s in the clear ethically. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/1033 "2024-08-27T18:54:23Z")
Yeah, how will we maintain the social compact if we decide it’s wrong to declare whole groups of people to be sub- or non-human and can no longer hunt them down like animals? Don’t we live in a society? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/1034 "2024-08-27T19:21:16Z")
Like I said. > [@Cervaise](#): > > Max doesn’t see people as people. He sees them as symbols in a math equation. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/1035 "2024-08-27T21:26:40Z")
Then he must not be very good at math, either. As both an attorney and a math major, I believe I am uniquely qualified to arrive at that conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/1036 "2024-08-27T21:27:07Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > That really strikes my memory as more of a **Smapti** thing. I had the same thought, but it’s possible they **both** said this. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/1037 "2024-08-28T01:15:14Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Okay, thanks. I may have been conflating a submission to the Fugitive Slave Act with an inclination to turn Jews over to the Gestapo. What’s the objective difference? The law said fugitive slaves had to be returned to their masters. The law also said Jews had to live in their designated ghettos. One found hiding in your barn is breaking the law either way. To one equating the law with morality, both are equally illegal and immoral, as fucked up of a viewpoint as that is. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/1038 "2024-08-28T01:26:11Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > What’s the objective difference? He said the difference was that as a Jew, the Nazi state made him a non citizen and therefore he owed nothing to it and could fight against it. Likewise, of course a black person would be allowed to resist slavery because the slave state removes _his_ rights so _he_ owes _it_ nothing. But presumably if Nazi Germany was willing to make that black person a citizen he’d be required to turn over any Jews. So I guess the answer is that there IS NO objective difference, the difference is explicitly subjective. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/1039 "2024-08-28T01:36:29Z")
> [@Jihi](#): > > He uses the law as a substitute for an ethical framework. That’s a valid criticism, though obviously _I_ don’t think I use the law as a _substitute_ for an ethical framework. Rather, I think of myself as refusing to use my ethical framework as a substitute for law. I consciously try _very hard_ to do so - to work from premises to conclusions and not the reverse. Hence why I argued that the air force is unconstitutional - it’s because I think the underlying laws are flawed, not because I want the U.S. to lose military conflicts. But that’s my own take on what’s going on in my head. I’m not saying this is your or any other person’s position (sorry if I don’t recall debating with you) - but over the years, I’ve talked with many people who say immoral or unethical law is no law at all. Usually wrt temporal law that conflicts with the Bible, but also on the other end of the spectrum, i.e. conflicts with basic human dignity. If you read my opinions with that perspective, then yeah, I’m going to seem a genuinely horrible person. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Jihi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jihi/32/17768_2.png) [@Jihi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jihi)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074/1040 "2024-08-28T01:41:49Z")
Max, you seem to lack empathy and understanding for other human beings. Does that bother you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074.md?page=51) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-max-s/959074.md?page=53)