# Pitting Muslims **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 3, 2015, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-muslims/714111 "2015-03-03T18:20:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-muslims/714111/61 "2015-03-04T11:23:24Z")
> [@racepug](#): > > When people call me an “idiot” I get defensive, REAL fast. I’m many things, and not all good to all people (though I generally try to be), but one thing I definitely am NOT is an idiot. Can you provide any evidence for that claim? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-muslims/714111/62 "2015-03-04T17:05:20Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > No particular comments on Muslims and dogs, but “unclean” doesn’t mean physically dirty in this context. Ritual uncleanliness isn’t about dirt; its about your ability to participate in ritual. So, when you read that Islam considers dogs unclean, that means that if a Muslim touches a dog, he or she has to undergo a purification ritual (washing with water or dirt, in this case) before he or she can pray. In the interest of fighting ignorance, what kind of ritual uncleanliness? First, why is a dog specifically unclean, what about it makes it unclean, what happens to the ritual if one is unclean and participates in it, and if all that is true, why don’t they still just fucking purify themselves? If I had a pet pig that wallows in its own filth, I wouldn’t pet him and go eat, I’d wash up first. So why aren’t Muslims keeping dogs and just purifying themselves before whatever ritual? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-muslims/714111/63 "2015-03-04T21:46:33Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > So why aren’t Muslims keeping dogs and just purifying themselves before whatever ritual? As several previous posters have made abundantly clear, that is in fact what many pet-owning Muslims do. > [@gracefulfatsheba](#): > > But it’s really a matter of perception. If I could see what you see in dogs (I’m glad I’m not that person), I’d think it was worth it. Fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-muslims/714111/64 "2015-03-04T22:33:04Z")
> [@racepug](#): > > Since this is the BBQ Pit you can take your accusations of “self-idiocy” and shove 'em where the sun don’t shine, bucko. I didn’t post looking for criticisms from self-important a-holes like YOU! “A-holes?” “A-holes??” What the fuck is this, 1940? Goddamn, cocksucker. Act like you’re a goddamn grown-up. Idiot. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-muslims/714111/65 "2015-03-04T23:18:02Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > “A-holes?” > > “A-holes??” > > What the fuck is this, 1940? Goddamn, cocksucker. Act like you’re a goddamn grown-up. > > Idiot. That’s phuching a-holes, in the OP’s native language. Apparently. I could be wrong. I’m not fluent in idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-muslims/714111/66 "2015-03-04T23:27:40Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > What the fuck is this, 1940? Goddamn, cocksucker. Act like you’re a goddamn grown-up. [Moderating] In possibly the most ironic enforcement of this rule to date, I have to point out that calling other posters “cocksuckers” is a violation of the Pit’s language rules. Please avoid doing this again. No warning issued. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-muslims/714111/67 "2015-03-04T23:47:01Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > …calling other posters “cocksuckers” is a violation of the Pit’s language rules And also, not an insult. -andros, who really likes having his cock sucked- ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-muslims/714111/68 "2015-03-04T23:49:49Z")
How did that old saying go? Better not to post and have people think you a fool than post an idiotic OP and remove all doubt. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-muslims/714111/69 "2015-03-04T23:53:30Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > [Moderating] > In possibly the most ironic enforcement of this rule to date, I have to point out that calling other posters “cocksuckers” is a violation of the Pit’s language rules. Please avoid doing this again. > > No warning issued. > [/Moderating] If we spell it cochsuchers would it be okay? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-muslims/714111/70 "2015-03-05T00:28:10Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > How did that old saying go? > > Better not to post and have people think you a fool than post an idiotic OP and remove all doubt. “It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.” - Mark Twain ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-muslims/714111/71 "2015-03-05T00:32:16Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > How did that old saying go? > > Better not to post and have people think you a fool than post an idiotic OP and remove all doubt. > [@elucidator](#): > > “It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.” > > - Mark Twain Engage brain before putting mouth in gear. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-muslims/714111/72 "2015-03-05T01:28:31Z")
> [@andros](#): > > And also, not an insult. > > -andros, who really likes having his cock sucked- Weirdo. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-muslims/714111/73 "2015-03-05T01:58:00Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > [Moderating] > In possibly the most ironic enforcement of this rule to date, I have to point out that calling other posters “cocksuckers” is a violation of the Pit’s language rules. Please avoid doing this again. > > No warning issued. > [/Moderating] [Sideshow Bob] Cheerfully withdrawn! [/Sideshow Bob] ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-muslims/714111/74 "2015-03-07T01:42:24Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > In the interest of fighting ignorance, what kind of ritual uncleanliness? First, why is a dog specifically unclean, what about it makes it unclean, what happens to the ritual if one is unclean and participates in it, and if all that is true, why don’t they still just fucking purify themselves? A dog’s ritually unclean because there are hadiths that say that dogs are ritually unclean. I don’t think there’s a deeper reason beyond that. And, I think if you pray without purification, you have to redo the prayer, but I’d check with a mullah about that…I’m not all that knowledgeable about fiqh. ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-muslims/714111/75 "2015-03-07T02:43:09Z")
> [@racepug](#): > > When people call me an “idiot” I get defensive, REAL fast. I’m many things, and not all good to all people (though I generally try to be), but one thing I definitely am NOT is an idiot. You’re a fucking idiot. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-muslims/714111/76 "2015-03-07T13:01:44Z")
In all fairness, it’s part of the nature of ALL religions, to hold irrational beliefs. That’s what makes them religions. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-muslims/714111/77 "2015-03-07T13:16:52Z")
> [@gracefulfatsheba](#): > > The real question is why one would put oneself in a situation where personally disposing of an animal’s excrement becomes a daily responsibility. There’s nothing sensible about that, in my eyes. Surely, the ‘love’ (it is not actually love, but routine & dependence) that a dumb beast is capable of offering does not warrant reducing oneself to the level of a shit carrier. What I feel for my cats isn’t “routine & dependence,” but actual love. Even when I’m emptying their litter box. Have you ever changed a baby’s diaper? Or for that matter, do you wipe your own ass? Doesn’t that reduce you to the level of a “shit carrier”? ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-muslims/714111/78 "2015-03-07T14:05:43Z")
Good points,\*\* panache45\*\*. Look, I am a dog owner. I live in a community with families from the near east and south Asia. I recognize some of these people have not grown-up around dogs as pets. My dog is big and I realize he can be scary looking to people not familiar with dog behavior, especially if he is excited and wants to meet someone. He does not know people may view him as scary, so that is my responsibility. When we are out in the front yard and a family is walking down the sidewalk toward us, sometimes with little kids on bikes with training wheels, I call him close and tell him to stay put. I also lightly grab his collar and wave as they pass - more of an assurance to them that I am not going to let him get near. A long-time close friend of our is fearful of dogs. When she comes over, we just put him outside, or in another room. She is of Mexican descent, BTW. I’d rather just respect people than criticize their fears. I know my dog will not harm anyone, but THEY don’t know that. I am sure non-dog owners hate hearing people tell them “Oh, he’s REAL friendly! Don’t worry, he wont bite.” In fact, I hate that as well, when encountering an unfamiliar dog. I agree with the consensus here = this pitting is pretty weak. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-muslims/714111/79 "2015-03-07T15:04:08Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > This also goes for religions who consider certain forms of food to be unclean. Lots of advances in hygiene in the last 2000 years. What was unclean then is now perfectly fine to eat. So scarf down that bacon and lobster roll you germaphobe! I thought it was allergies that were the biggest problem with shellfish, not any kind of germs. Remember that those rules came up before people knew about germs: if you’re capable of establishing the correlation “first taste of shrimp -\> chokes and dies and no, the food hadn’t gotten stuck in his windpipe”, it makes sense to say “ok people, no shrimp;” “unclean” meant, among other things, “bad for your health”. Nowadays there are epipens, but anybody who thinks that the solution to allergies are “I’ll eat whatever I’m allergic to and just shoot up” is playing the table version of Russian roulette. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-muslims/714111/80 "2015-03-07T15:11:39Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > I thought it was allergies that were the biggest problem with shellfish, not any kind of germs. Remember that those rules came up before people knew about germs: if you’re capable of establishing the correlation “first taste of shrimp -\> chokes and dies and no, the food hadn’t gotten stuck in his windpipe”, it makes sense to say “ok people, no shrimp.” Nowadays there are epipens, but anybody who thinks that the solution to allergies are “I’ll eat whatever I’m allergic to and just shoot up” is playing the table version of Russian roulette. Not challenging what you said (I’d guess the prohibition developed from a combination all problems that have mentioned), but it could also be from witnessing cases of [shellfish poisoning](http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002851.htm). Paralytic shellfish poisoning sounds like something that would make people take notice! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-muslims/714111.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-muslims/714111.md?page=5)