# Pitting poker players who hate bad poker players **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 24, 2005, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-poker-players-who-hate-bad-poker-players/332578 "2005-11-24T13:07:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-poker-players-who-hate-bad-poker-players/332578/121 "2005-11-30T19:19:10Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > So if we ask one of the girls on Thursday if they’ve got a pair will they mime dropping their pants in response? (Note: I am not advocating this response. They’re all too old for me anyway.) And does this response only work because we have to normally assume testicles as being the only “pair”? I trust the ladies have a pair of a lot of things (barring any type of deformity or amputation)…eyes, ears, nostrils, arms, legs, front teeth, thumbs, big toes, gonads, nipples, brain lobes, kidneys, split personalities (j/k)…etc. Same as the guys. A pair is a pair is a pair. Balls and breasts and fallopian tubes, etc…is just a side issue…let’s ask them anyways and see what they say. > [@Otto](#): > > Well, she got up and walked away from the table, but as noted she didn’t speak to anyone. I don’t know if there’s some rule about approaching the rail while in a hand. If so, then she did wrong. If not, then as long as she didn’t speak to anyone I don’t have a problem with her wandering around. It’s a drama queen move but unless it’s specifically against the rules, I don’t care. I don’t have any problem with a clock being called on her either at that point. She’d been thinking it over for several minutes (and based on her chatter she was basing her decision largely on the fact that she’d doubled up with the same hand the day before, which if true is wicked stupid). Where Sheikhan was an ass was when Raymer went all in a little later and Sheikhan called for the clock almost literally the second that action was on her. I thought Williamson muttered something along the lines of “Should I call this guy?” to the railbirds and before any of them responded, Shiekhan reacted and she immediately left the railbirds and responded “They didn’t tell me anything.” or something of the sort. I practically watched the whole main event over the 6-8 hour period on ESPN on Thanksgiving while drinking wine and beer and helping my wife with cooking the turkey and other yummy things, so maybe I was SLIGHTLY distracted. 😉 Hellmuth doesn’t ask the railbirds anything, but he does get up and walk around mid-hand to ponder on occasion, muttering to himself within an armslength of the railbirds…and that seems ok etiquette as long as there is no perceived interaction with them…that’s Hellmuth being Hellmuth. Williamson IMHO went one step beyond that and she was perceived as discussing her hand with someone else (regardless if it is a player, official, or a railbird), and sharing your hand with someone is a no-no, even though she didn’t get that point, it can be reasonably assumed that she might have done it in the eyes of the other players and officials. ---
**Author:** ![Aholibah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Aholibah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aholibah)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-poker-players-who-hate-bad-poker-players/332578/122 "2005-11-30T20:43:33Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > They’re all too old for me anyway. True. But still. Ouch. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-poker-players-who-hate-bad-poker-players/332578/123 "2005-11-30T21:22:12Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > Hm. Wiki states: > > > [@](#): > > > > and process of certification or licensing. > > Whoops! Aside from licensed poker instructors, to my knowledge there is no certification to play poker. All poker players pay their own way - that is, they are responsible for paying the entry fees into tournaments and providing the cash that is gambled with in cash games. I would argue that once you pony up the entry fees that you are licensed, in effect. Also, the Supreme Court ruled in 1987 that gambling constituted a business which meant the IRS had to accept the fact that some people were in fact professional gamblers. That cite is from an [interesting article](http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archives/showarticle.php?a_id=13444&m_id=70) on whether you should tell the IRS you’re a pro or not. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-poker-players-who-hate-bad-poker-players/332578/124 "2005-11-30T21:26:23Z")
I see that **Duke of Rat** beat me to it with the same citation, in fact. That’s what I get for not reading ahead before I posted… ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-poker-players-who-hate-bad-poker-players/332578/125 "2005-11-30T21:26:30Z")
> [@Aholibah](#): > > > [@asterion](#): > > > > They’re all too old for me anyway. > > True. But still. Ouch. I see **asterion** is sporting the “Kick Me!” sign on his forehead. Word of advice, **asterion** … You don’t want **Aholibah** on your case. (Man, I hope the mods don’t cream me for fixing the coding in that quote) ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-poker-players-who-hate-bad-poker-players/332578/126 "2005-12-01T00:26:35Z")
> [@Yeticus Rex](#): > > I thought Williamson muttered something along the lines of “Should I call this guy?” to the railbirds and before any of them responded, Shiekhan reacted and she immediately left the railbirds and responded “They didn’t tell me anything.” or something of the sort. As I remember it, she got up and started walking toward the rail. I don’t remember her saying anything at that point. Sheikhan said something like “hey lady, you can’t do that, I object to that” and she turned around and headed back to the table saying something like “I didn’t say anything.” But I don’t clearly remember her comment, despite not having been distracted by either a wife or a turkey. I’m sure ESPN will run it seven or eight hundred more times within the next week so if we’re all so desperate to get the exact quote it shouldn’t be too long a wait. > [@Yeticus Rex](#): > > Hellmuth doesn’t ask the railbirds anything, but he does get up and walk around mid-hand to ponder on occasion, muttering to himself within an armslength of the railbirds…and that seems ok etiquette as long as there is no perceived interaction with them…that’s Hellmuth being Hellmuth. Williamson IMHO went one step beyond that and she was perceived as discussing her hand with someone else (regardless if it is a player, official, or a railbird), and sharing your hand with someone is a no-no, even though she didn’t get that point, it can be reasonably assumed that she might have done it in the eyes of the other players and officials. I don’t object to Sheikhan’s heading her off from the rail either. But he apparently decided that she was beneath contempt either then or soon thereafter and started behaving very poorly. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-poker-players-who-hate-bad-poker-players/332578/127 "2005-12-01T06:52:16Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > Eh. It’s a judgement call. The example used earlier with Layne Flack…that was skating the fine line. Lying and saying you have an ace when you don’t in order to push someone out of a hand is absolutely not allowed. You cannot misrepresent your hand. Sorry, but why not (“ethically” speaking)? Live poker is a battle of wits, and I’ll seek to gain an advantage any way I can. I certainly don’t expect anyone to believe me if I declare my hand, I see it as part of the bluffing and tactics inherent in the game. As others have said, this convention seems to be regularly flouted even when explicitly stated in the rules for the event. I would draw the line at making comments once you have folded, however - I can see why that’s unfair and frowned upon. But with live cards, I enjoy the table talk. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-poker-players-who-hate-bad-poker-players/332578.md?page=6)