# Pitting SayTwo **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 27, 2020, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070 "2020-10-27T23:06:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2021, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/242 "2021-01-30T21:01:40Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Huh. No, I don’t think drunk drivers are murderous. Not even close. I think they are morally in the wrong. But I think it has to be your intent to kill someone to be murderous. Careless indifference to the likelihood of harming others doesn’t meet that threshold. Some drunk drivers must be murderous or DUI murder wouldn’t exist. > [@](#): > > ## DUI Murder > > A DUI murder charge is one of the most serious crimes involving a motor vehicle. While harder for the prosecution to prove in most states, if you are involved a DUI crash and cause a fatality, prosecutors may be able to charge you with a variation of [DUI murder](https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/second-degree-murder-overview.html). [https://www.findlaw.com/dui/charges/dui-manslaughter-and-dui-murder.html](https://www.findlaw.com/dui/charges/dui-manslaughter-and-dui-murder.html) ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2021, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/243 "2021-01-30T21:05:37Z")
This is how DUI murder can come about (from your first link): **Extreme Indifference to Human Life** _The third main type of second-degree murder occurs when a victim dies as a result of the perpetrator’s extreme indifference to the value of human life. Generally speaking, extreme indifference means an utter disregard of the possibility that an act will kill someone._ _Going back to Adam and Bill, imagine that instead of hitting Bill over the head with a shovel, Adam grabs his gun and wildly fires toward a crowd of neighbors that have gathered to observe the argument between Adam and Bill. Adam didn’t necessarily mean to kill anyone, but also didn’t give any thought to the harm that his actions could cause to people in the crowd. This demonstrates Adam’s extreme indifference to human life. If one of Adam’s bullets struck and killed anyone in the crowd, then Adam has probably committed a murder in the second degree._ I can see how a DUI homicide could be argued to be legal murder under those circumstances. In a legal sense, you could consider that behavior to be “murderous”. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2021, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/244 "2021-01-30T21:15:40Z")
This is a very strange tangent in a thread originally dedicated to the well-justified evisceration of a transparently trolling sea-lion fuckstick. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2021, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/245 "2021-01-30T21:17:56Z")
Yeah it is. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2021, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/246 "2021-01-30T21:19:58Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > This is a very strange tangent in a thread originally dedicated to the well-justified evisceration of a transparently trolling sea-lion fuckstick. Never underestimate the ability of dopers to lose focus on the subject of the thread in order to pursue an irrelevant nitpick. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2021, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/247 "2021-01-30T22:37:05Z")
😁 The motto of this board could be “Fighting Ignorance Through Pedantic Tangents”. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/248 "2021-01-31T08:09:56Z")
And you’re an asshole. I know which I prefer. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/249 "2021-01-31T08:15:28Z")
I didn’t mean it as an insult, but whatever. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/250 "2021-01-31T08:35:58Z")
Sure, buddy, whatever you say. Or rather - fuck off, of course it’s an insult. A piss-poor one, given this is the Pit, but an insult nonetheless. Fuck you and your disingenuousness. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/251 "2021-01-31T17:43:06Z")
If you look back, when I was debating with you I was trying to do so in a kind way. I don’t always do that, this being the Pit I will often insult the fuck out of people. But I wasn’t upset at you, I had nothing against you, I was just sincerely interested in your viewpoint. You have to admit that your perspective is unusual compared to others on this board. Really, if you want to throw your toys around and bitch go for it. No skin off my nose. I just wanted you to know I didn’t sincerely mean it in an insulting way. Call me a liar if you want, it doesn’t bother me. I’ve been an administrator on Wikipedia for more than a decade, I’ve been insulted by countless people on the internet. I am pretty used to it. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/252 "2021-01-31T18:31:14Z")
In other news, in the now closed ATMB thread the fuckstick **SayTwo** might have posted his most detailed, cite-filled rebuttal to the post where I demonstrate his dishonesty. It was a dishonest response that didn’t really counter anything I demonstrated, but it was long and did have cites, even if they weren’t used correctly. I’m pretty sure it would not have taken place at all if it hadn’t been for **DSeid** acknowledging that it was difficult to see that interaction as anything other than dishonesty. So, go **SayTwo** , we know you’re capable! All you have to do now is focus on accuracy. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/253 "2021-01-31T18:50:38Z")
It’s possible the phrase “gish gallop” came to mind when reading **SayTwo** ’s rebuttal attempt. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/254 "2021-01-31T19:09:26Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > In other news, in the now closed ATMB thread the fuckstick **SayTwo** might have posted his most detailed, cite-filled rebuttal to the post where I demonstrate his dishonesty. It was a dishonest response that didn’t really counter anything I demonstrated, but it was long and did have cites, even if they weren’t used correctly. I was going to say before that thread was locked that that was a lot of tap dancing to avoid dealing with the specific issue. I also noticed that he still has no shame whatsoever by continuing to describe experts that were cited as “just” doctors that are telling us “the most anti-science theory that continues to get trotted out there”. That was followed by **Banksiaman** [showing that SayTwo was ignoring evidence that I already had posted, only to have Saytwo dismiss the evidence just because a judge did agree with businesses and not the scientists.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-missing-something-here-re-reopening-of-bars-etc-now/922356/934) SayTwo really does not care if he is wrong about thinking that “people are generally well suited enough to broadly assess risk and observant enough to notice if bodies are stacking up on the streets.” In reality they are not as demonstrated by the lack of masking in many restaurants that me and many others observed. And the surveys that showed that many people (specially conservatives) drop masks and social distancing during friends and family reunions or meets while at the same time they do respect using masks when authorities and business require them. SayTwo’s agenda is to justify with dishonest ways the “freedumb” of irresponsible people. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2021, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/255 "2021-02-06T00:30:32Z")
Ignorant fuckstick has a question! > [@Vaccines, transmissibility and herd immunity](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaccines-transmissibility-and-herd-immunity/932273/7): > > Could you please expand on what you mean here? When you say ‘given the infectiousness of this virus’, do you mean it’s a little infectious or a lot infectious? You seem to imply that ‘herd immunity’ won’t or can’t be reached without vaccination, so I want to read the first part of your sentence as claiming that the virus has characteristics that won’t allow it to reach enough hosts on its own. But high infectiousness – which I kinda thought the virus was deemed to have – and asymptomatic spread… How would we every get at the truth of these oh-so-hard-to-parse sentences, if it were not for his heroic efforts to politely Just Ask Questions, without any agenda whatsoever oh no sir. ---
**Author:** ![Tfletch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tfletch1/32/5340_2.png) [@Tfletch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tfletch1)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2021, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/256 "2021-02-06T16:59:54Z")
He’s doing the same shit again in another thread. For the first time, I’ve gotten to the thread before it was derailed and it was very interesting to read. Since I got there early, I was able to report two posts. Usually it’s hard to find the point at which he fucks it up. > > [@Is the USA approaching herd immunity?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-usa-approaching-herd-immunity/932256/12): > > > > It is certainly true that there is a skewness in the infection data, and that there are a relatively small minority fraction of infected people who are responsible for the majority of “superspreader” events where dozens or hundreds of people are infected; > > Is it, ‘certainly true’? I’m going to hold you to task here, because I’m not aware of any firm evidence of this, despite its widespread belief. Which events do you have in mind, where hundreds of people were infected? (And can you think of any other explanations for what was observed, in those cases?) You talk about surveillance in your post, and despite the US not having the most rigorous data sets from it, there has been plenty of it worldwide. How ubiquitous _is_ this pattern of one person infecting ‘dozens or hundreds’? > > My impression is that the contact tracing that’s been done, particularly in places that can do it with genomic sequencing (and thus, at least theoretically, demonstrate something beyond coincidence), points to the vast, vast preponderance of spread coming in other ways. > > So, can you provide cites that demonstrate the ‘certainty’ of that purported ‘truth’? > > > [@Is the USA approaching herd immunity?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-usa-approaching-herd-immunity/932256/10): > > > > The unmodified basic replication number, R0 (i.e. the mean number of replications per infection) of the original SARS-CoV-2 virus has been estimated at between 3.8 and 8.9, which makes the estimated heard immunity threshold to between 74% and 89% without social and physical modifications to reduce the incidence of transmission. The B.1.1.7 variant has an increase in infectiousness of between 40% and 70% which implies the adjusted herd immunity threshold is between 81% and 94%. Other rapidly spreading variants are believed to have an equal or greater R0 value. > > This paragraph is chock full of assumptions and estimates (at least one not expressly described as such), and of course is based on theoretical models (which is not made expressly clear). You are aware of competing models, I would assume? And ones that do better with observed infection data, at that. The simple threshold model you seem to be using here (some might recognize it as similar to something you might see in middle-school algebra) assumes homogenous populations, no? And the real world is far from that? > [@Is the USA approaching herd immunity?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-usa-approaching-herd-immunity/932256/17): > > Is it, ‘certainly true’? I’m going to hold you to task here, because I’m not aware of any firm evidence of this, despite its widespread belief. Which events do you have in mind, where hundreds of people were infected? (And can you think of any other explanations for what was observed, in those cases?) You talk about surveillance in your post, and despite the US not having the most rigorous data sets from it, there has been plenty of it worldwide. How ubiquitous is this pattern of one person inf… ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/257 "2021-03-02T18:32:40Z")
> [@Am I missing something here? (re: reopening of bars, etc... now)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-missing-something-here-re-reopening-of-bars-etc-now/922356/1350): > > What is it you do have interest in? You went a long way out of your way to loudly make the case that we have no evidence yet to believe there is any seasonality to this virus (despite that we know there is for many other viruses like it). What is really your angle here? Seeking truth would not seem to be an apparent one, if you have no interest in taking in new data and checking your claims against them. I see that the “S” for his Avatar stands for [Sealion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning) still. ---
**Author:** ![Tfletch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tfletch1/32/5340_2.png) [@Tfletch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tfletch1)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/258 "2021-03-02T18:57:32Z")
Well, well, well. Looks like people are no longer engaging the sealion. Except @Banquet_Bear. He’s got more stamina than I’ll ever have. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/259 "2021-03-02T19:15:53Z")
And, then, this happened: > [@Am I missing something here? (re: reopening of bars, etc... now)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-missing-something-here-re-reopening-of-bars-etc-now/922356/1355): > > Moderator Instructions At this point, you are pointlessly badgering other posters, a classic “sealioning” move. If you want to demonstrate seasonality, it’s up to you to do so, not force others to. And the accusation that someone is not seeking truth because they refuse to engage you is insulting. Given this, and continual complaints about your behavior, I’m hereby banning you from this forum. Do not make any further posts in this thread, or in this forum, or you will receive a warning. Coli… ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/260 "2021-03-02T19:21:11Z")
Finally! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/261 "2021-03-02T19:26:12Z")
Hear the crowd roar! [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/QvWdFisfKqM/maxresdefault.jpg "Loudest Indoor Crowd Roar") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvWdFisfKqM) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070.md?page=14)