# Pitting SayTwo **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 27, 2020, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070 "2020-10-27T23:06:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/61 "2020-12-07T07:24:41Z")
Good. Now pulling for him to be banned from the channel entirely. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/62 "2020-12-07T13:52:33Z")
Yes. I predict it won’t be long. And another belated Welcome Back! to @Cervaise. > [@casdave](#): > > The username pretty much says it all Saytwo = doublespeak, so nothing stated by that poster is in good faith and everything has an ulterior motive. > > Says one thing, but means something completely different. This is not the classic troll at all but does employ sometimes trollish behaviour when it suits. Ultimately the tactic amounts to a deliberately vague “No, it’s not; you’re lying / covering up something!” to any claim. Which has the effect in 3rd-party watchers of sowing doubt that _any_thing is uncontroversially knowable. It’s all about setting the audience to a mindset of doubting everything and everyone all the time everywhere. Which is a precursor to whoever’s behind the effort delivering their payload of a different but easier-to-believe reality that leads directly to the audience behaving as desired. Or at a minimum, leads to the ~~audience~~ target society becoming ungovernable democratically. Two guesses who likes that idea. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/63 "2020-12-07T15:14:25Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > … As for the “hijack”, I do care … See also this recent thread on 737 MAX [FAA starts Boeing 737 Max test flights](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faa-starts-boeing-737-max-test-flights/913691) ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/64 "2020-12-07T15:21:18Z")
Well, that really wasn’t any more blatantly false than running\_coach replying with “rough fatality rate of 1.9%”. The problem with SayTwo isn’t that he’s lying. He’s junking up debate JAQing off. He asked how hospitals could be so strained with a mere 10% increase in patient load. I said they are often strained by a heavy flu season and this was worse than that. Then he asked for a cite that this is worse than a bad flu season. Kinda overplayed his hand there and he got pissy when I refused to go further. That’s what he does everywhere only usually more complex questions so it’s not so obvious at first. I thought his name was a play on “c’est tout”. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/65 "2020-12-07T15:31:37Z")
> [@FigNorton](#): > > Well, that really wasn’t any more blatantly false than running\_coach replying with “rough fatality rate of 1.9%”. How about an [actual fatality rate of 1.9%?](https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality) ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/66 "2020-12-07T15:33:53Z")
How about, that’s the case fatality rate. You know the infection fatality rate is most definitely lower, probably considerably lower. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/67 "2020-12-07T15:34:46Z")
> [@FigNorton](#): > > How about, that’s the case fatality rate. You know the infection fatality rate is most definitely lower, probably considerably lower. - Got numbers? ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/68 "2020-12-07T15:35:25Z")
Trom posted the CDC’s estimates in the breaking news thread. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/69 "2020-12-07T15:38:40Z")
> [@FigNorton](#): > > Trom posted the CDC’s estimates in the breaking news thread. - Those are broken out by age. I was going with overall. Got numbers on the lower infection rate you’re claiming? ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/70 "2020-12-07T15:40:27Z")
No, I’m not going to argue with someone who doesn’t think the IFR is lower than CFR. Nor someone who wants to ignore the age factor and come up with an average. Just like I won’t argue with someone who needs proof this is worse than flu season. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/71 "2020-12-07T15:53:34Z")
> [@FigNorton](#): > > No, I’m not going to argue with someone who doesn’t think the IFR is lower than CFR. Nor someone who wants to ignore the age factor and come up with an average. Just like I won’t argue with someone who needs proof this is worse than flu season. - Since we don’t have an actual IFR, then CFR is all we have to go on. Unless you have data you’re hiding. ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/72 "2020-12-07T15:57:39Z")
Like I said, not going to argue about it. If you look into it yourself, you will find belief that the IFR being lower than the CFR is the standard thinking in the medical community. Yes, it can only be estimated right now. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/73 "2020-12-07T16:01:21Z")
> [@FigNorton](#): > > Like I said, not going to argue about it. If you look into it yourself, you will find belief that the **IFR being lower than the CFR** is the standard thinking in the medical community. Yes, it can only be estimated right now. - I never said it wasn’t lower. But since no one knows what it actually is, it’s kinda useless. ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/74 "2020-12-07T16:02:23Z")
The CFR is also useless. What does that number do for you? What does an average rate do for you? ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/75 "2020-12-07T16:15:52Z")
See, you’re actually doing the same thing as SayTwo. Trying to get me to jump through a bunch of hoops to prove accepted facts and ignoring the point. The only difference is that you are trying to make covid scarier while SayTwo is downplaying it. So your shenanigans are more “noble”, I guess, but I don’t really want to play along. ---
**Author:** ![Tfletch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tfletch1/32/5340_2.png) [@Tfletch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tfletch1)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/76 "2020-12-07T16:25:09Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > I never said it wasn’t lower. But since no one knows what it actually is, it’s kinda useless. Exactly. The IFR is going to be lower because confirmed cases are falsely low. That means that there’s lots more people with the disease than we know and simply points to how contagious it is. Which also means that herd immunity requires much more people immune. Plus, there’s the possibility of people being infected more than once (although rare, I hope). So the reality is in total deaths and hospitalizations, which is pretty high. Covid was the leading cause of death last week and will likely be the leading cause of death for a while now. ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/77 "2020-12-07T16:38:30Z")
> [@Tfletch1](#): > > Exactly. The IFR is going to be lower because confirmed cases are falsely low. Got numbers on the lower infection rate you’re claiming? See, how does that feel? Lol. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/78 "2020-12-08T10:06:43Z")
> [@FigNorton](#): > > Got numbers on the lower infection rate you’re claiming? Sure I \>= C, which means that IFR \<= CFR. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Tfletch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tfletch1/32/5340_2.png) [@Tfletch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tfletch1)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/79 "2020-12-08T20:42:44Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > Sure I \>= C, which means that IFR \<= CFR. > > 🙂 By definition. LOL. If it’s the other way around, you doin’ sumpin wrong. Kinda like \> 100% yield. (Dry your samples, students!) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070/80 "2020-12-19T17:25:31Z")
> [@Sweden do-nothing approach good, US/UK/other countries' early do-nothing approach bad. Why?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/769): > > I see a certain person has found another thread to drop turds all over @Saytwo - please go to the pit thread that has been involked in your name where further appropriate discussion may take place > [@Sweden do-nothing approach good, US/UK/other countries' early do-nothing approach bad. Why?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/771): > > I’ll pass. I stopped behaving like I was in middle school when I left middle school. I can say then that the one being roasted here has decided to continue with his freshman and juvenile behavior. . . . . [Warner Brothers Cartoon card pops up] ``` We wish to apologize to he nice freshmen students who may be in the audience ....The Management. ``` [/WBCC] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-saytwo/924070.md?page=5)