# Pitting Shodan for stubborness **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 5, 2017, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-shodan-for-stubborness/785915 "2017-05-05T15:22:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-shodan-for-stubborness/785915/1 "2017-05-05T15:22:26Z")
I like **Shodan** , despite disagreeing with him so often on politics. He’s the king of snark. He can also be thoughtful and reasonable and decent. But sometimes he refuses to admit he’s wrong. In [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=825281), about a comedian’s story about his daughter’s hair being touched at school. The comedian (W. Kamau Bell) thought that his daughter was experiencing racism, but this is how he handled it with his daughter: > [@](#): > > And part of me wants to sit her down and go, Sami, this is racism. That’s what you’re experiencing. But she’s not ready for that. So what I did was like I sort of swallowed hard and was like all right, Sami, if you don’t want to wear your hair out, you don’t have to wear your hair out. But just so you know, me and Melissa both said this - your hair is beautiful, we love it when it’s out, and when you’re ready to wear it out again, you can - we will - you can wear it out. So, you know, allowing her to have the agency to make her decision and then over the course of several months, she wore it down. And then one day she’s like I want to wear it - I want to wear my hair out again. **Shodan** says this about Bell’s parenting: > [@Kamau Bell and Racist Five Year Olds](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamau-bell-and-racist-five-year-olds/785729/133): > > \ What Bell did was to teach his daughter that anything that happens to her is racism. You can call it not waiting for a smoking gun. You can also call it teaching her how to play the race card. > > It doesn’t appear he wants to delay it - he just wants her to label it as racism. I don’t see how that helps her be more comfortable in her own skin. > > Regards, > Shodan How does that compute? Bell specifically _didn’t_ mention racism to his daughter. What the hell is **Shodan** talking about? I challenge him on it. He responds this way: > [@Kamau Bell and Racist Five Year Olds](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamau-bell-and-racist-five-year-olds/785729/135): > > On preview - never mind. If you aren’t going to read your own cites, there’s no point. > > Regards, > Shodan What the fuck? What in my quote, which specifically has Bell saying _he didn’t mention racism to his daughter_, supports that he was teaching his daughter to blame it on racism? **Ruken** says: > [@Kamau Bell and Racist Five Year Olds](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamau-bell-and-racist-five-year-olds/785729/139): > > Part of him wants to tell her it’s racism. > > Part of me wants a herd of Pomeranians. But I do not want a herd of Pomeranians, nor have I acquired one. Then **Shodan** offers this cryptic response: > [@Kamau Bell and Racist Five Year Olds](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamau-bell-and-racist-five-year-olds/785729/142): > > No he doesn’t. Because he said he wanted to. That specifically and directly refutes that he does. > > It’s as obvious as pizza. > > Regards, > Shodan I suspect he’s in full on snark mode, unmatched on the Dope, while being entirely unable to admit that he’s wrong. **Shodan** , you’re just wrong on this. Bell didn’t say anything about racism to his daughter. We’re all wrong sometimes. It’s hard to admit it – I’m sure I’ve had trouble admitting I was wrong at times too. But in this case it’s so obvious, and so clear, that I just don’t get how you can’t see it. When he specifically mentions that he _didn’t_ tell his daughter this was about racism, how can you accuse him of teaching his daughter that it was about racism? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-shodan-for-stubborness/785915/2 "2017-05-05T15:27:34Z")
> [@](#): > > But sometimes he refuses to admit he’s wrong. There’s a thread somewhere in which **Shodan** admitted he was wrong about something? If so, consider me gobsmacked. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-shodan-for-stubborness/785915/3 "2017-05-05T15:28:44Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > There’s a thread somewhere in which **Shodan** admitted he was wrong about something? > > If so, consider me gobsmacked. I know I can be pretty rough sometimes – if anyone gets the vapors from my brutal language, I apologize. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-shodan-for-stubborness/785915/4 "2017-05-05T15:32:38Z")
I think there was a pitting of Shodan a while ago where the term “snot” was tossed about as a description. I also think Shodan is reconciled to that description. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-shodan-for-stubborness/785915/5 "2017-05-05T15:34:34Z")
**iiandyiiii** : You’re too nice to pit people. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-shodan-for-stubborness/785915/6 "2017-05-05T15:35:29Z")
I like Shodan, he’s just the way it is. He’s what I call a congenital conservative, he needs to focus on any tiny point that supports his point view while readily throwing the baby out with the pizza box. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-shodan-for-stubborness/785915/7 "2017-05-05T15:35:39Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > **iiandyiiii** : You’re too nice to pit people. 🙂 Maybe you should pit me for it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-shodan-for-stubborness/785915/8 "2017-05-05T15:50:02Z")
I like **Shodan** as he can be entertaining, but I’ve never found it to be fruitful in any way to debate with him. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-shodan-for-stubborness/785915/9 "2017-05-05T15:54:23Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I like **Shodan** as he can be entertaining, but I’ve never found it to be fruitful in any way to debate with him. I recall connecting with him to some degree on a few occasions – the one that stands out most in my mind is in my plea for wariness on the part of conservatives after the election. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-shodan-for-stubborness/785915/10 "2017-05-05T15:56:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Maybe you should pit me for it. 😉 I tried. Once. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-shodan-for-stubborness/785915/11 "2017-05-05T15:59:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I like **Shodan** , > [@TriPolar](#): > > I like Shodan, > [@John\_Mace](#): > > I like **Shodan** When y’all get that room, request a California King. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-shodan-for-stubborness/785915/12 "2017-05-05T15:59:43Z")
As the OP says, **Shodan** can be thoughtful and decent. But IME, his practice of those characteristics is strictly limited to nonpolitical threads. There’s hardly any point in Pitting him for being the way he is in political threads, because he is what he is. Might as well either take him as he is, or put him on Ignore. (I haven’t, but then I’ve got a very short Ignore list.) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-shodan-for-stubborness/785915/13 "2017-05-05T16:04:56Z")
It’s a fair cop. Yes, I’m stubborn. And yes, Bell didn’t tell his daughter it was racism. I was wrong there. However, I said Bell wanted to label it as racism, and you ( **iiandyiii** ) posted a cite where he said that he did, and claimed it as a specific refutation of the notion that he wanted to label it as racism. Bell also said that when something is racist, it is as obvious as when something is a pizza. And he wanted to label the hair-touching as racist even though it wasn’t obviously racist at all. Still, as mentioned, a fair cop. Mea culpa. Regards, Shodan PS - As this is the Pit, fuck. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-shodan-for-stubborness/785915/14 "2017-05-05T16:08:45Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It’s a fair cop. > > Yes, I’m stubborn. And yes, Bell didn’t tell his daughter it was racism. I was wrong there. > > However, I said Bell wanted to label it as racism, and you ( **iiandyiii** ) posted a cite where he said that he did, and claimed it as a specific refutation of the notion that he wanted to label it as racism. Bell also said that when something is racist, it is as obvious as when something is a pizza. And he wanted to label the hair-touching as racist even though it wasn’t obviously racist at all. > > Still, as mentioned, a fair cop. Mea culpa. > > Regards, > Shodan > > PS - As this is the Pit, fuck. Hallelujah! Thank you for the introspection and fair analysis. To be clear, I wasn’t quibbling that Bell considered this racism (he very clearly did) – I was quibbling with your claim that Bell was teaching his daughter to blame racism. He very clearly didn’t (according to the story he told about how he interacted with her). But thank you for being willing to look at yourself and admit when you’re wrong. My great affection for you grows even greater even as we speak. Hopefully this can lead us all to become better posters in the future. PS - and a fuck right back. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-shodan-for-stubborness/785915/15 "2017-05-05T16:10:30Z")
99% of Shodan’s posts seem to boil down to one line which in turn boils down to “T’ain’t so!” It’s virtually a taunt each time. I find it incredibly annoying, given that s/he can post very insightful answers when choosing to. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-shodan-for-stubborness/785915/16 "2017-05-05T16:11:18Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > As the OP says, **Shodan** can be thoughtful and decent. But IME, his practice of those characteristics is strictly limited to nonpolitical threads. There’s hardly any point in Pitting him for being the way he is in political threads, because he is what he is. Might as well either take him as he is, or put him on Ignore. (I haven’t, but then I’ve got a very short Ignore list.) Still feel this way? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-shodan-for-stubborness/785915/17 "2017-05-05T16:22:02Z")
I’ve always found Shodan annoying but he used to sometimes at least put some thought into his posts but lately he’s just been ugly and cruel: * * * Originally Posted by Shodan Thanks for enlightening me - I now know that lifestyle has no effect on health outcomes, and that a single anecdote outweighs any number of statistics. Incidentally, since people who incur higher health care costs should not have to pay more, I assume you will be paying for her deductibles and out of pocket costs in their entirety. Since you care so much about her. ## Regards, Shodan Sorry for the wonky quote. I’m on my phone and haven’t figured out how to quote properly, yet. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-shodan-for-stubborness/785915/18 "2017-05-05T17:52:59Z")
> [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > I’ve always found Shodan annoying but he used to sometimes at least put some thought into his posts but lately he’s just been ugly and cruel: > > * * * > > Originally Posted by Shodan > Thanks for enlightening me - I now know that lifestyle has no effect on health outcomes, and that a single anecdote outweighs any number of statistics. > > Incidentally, since people who incur higher health care costs should not have to pay more, I assume you will be paying for her deductibles and out of pocket costs in their entirety. Since you care so much about her. > > ## Regards, Shodan > > Sorry for the wonky quote. I’m on my phone and haven’t figured out how to quote properly, yet. This one was pure ass-hattery. Cruel is an apt word. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-shodan-for-stubborness/785915/19 "2017-05-05T18:00:21Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > 99% of Shodan’s posts seem to boil down to one line which in turn boils down to “T’ain’t so!” It’s virtually a taunt each time. > > I find it incredibly annoying, given that s/he can post very insightful answers when choosing to. No it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-shodan-for-stubborness/785915/20 "2017-05-05T18:08:53Z")
Yup. Cruel and ugly. And boring. He wondered into the urbanredneck thread just to give a childish “no you” dump. He didn’t use to be but he sure as hell is now. I’ve got a really short ignore list but it may grow longer. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-shodan-for-stubborness/785915.md?page=2)