# Pitting Steophan **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 6, 2017, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-steophan/795678 "2017-09-06T22:34:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-steophan/795678/101 "2021-11-28T15:53:24Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > I’m just sayin. You seem to like child killers a whole lot. People make connections. I also support Rittenhouse, someone who was as much a child as Martin, and who defended himself against the violent white men who attacked him. It’s almost like race is irrelevant to justice - not that the American left will ever see that. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-steophan/795678/102 "2021-11-28T15:53:58Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > It’s almost like race is irrelevant to justice What a fucking tool you are. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-steophan/795678/103 "2021-11-28T15:56:54Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > I’m sure you think slave rebellions were criminal acts Of course I think they were criminal acts. They were against the law. That doesn’t make them wrong. Burning down the Senate because there’s 1(one) alleged criminal they support? That would be wrong. As for the rest of my post, it is not gibberish. I’m not american, not christian and not straight, which means I’m not what I’ve been accused of being here, I have an outsiders perspective on it, and I know what it’s like to be a threatened minority. So maybe you should know what you’re talking about before you spout off… ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-steophan/795678/104 "2021-11-28T15:57:56Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > What a fucking tool you are. Really? You think people should be treated differently depending on their race? I don’t. To do otherwise would be unjust, immoral and in many circumstances illegal. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-steophan/795678/105 "2021-11-28T15:59:04Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I’m not american, not christian and not straight, which means I’m not what I’ve been accused of being here You’re a racist fucking tool. You’ve shown no indication of anything different. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-steophan/795678/106 "2021-11-28T16:00:16Z")
They are already being treated differently, as you very well know. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-steophan/795678/107 "2021-11-28T16:07:32Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > you don’t believe a bunch of young black men listening to gansta rap could possibly be armed 1994 called and wants its racism back. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-steophan/795678/108 "2021-11-28T16:09:13Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > They are already being treated differently, as you very well know. Which I consider unjust, obviously. I would much have preferred that Ahmaud Arbery had been able to defend himself against his attackers, and face no consequences for doing so even if he’d killed them, but I’m not naive enough to think that would have happened. The best case scenario would be that he was armed and able to kill them, assuming they were intent on attacking him. Had that happened, there would have been a bunch of people on a mirror-image of this board saying he wasn’t really threatened, that they didn’t really have a weapon, that he should have avoided them and so on. They would be as wrong as you lot here are. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-steophan/795678/109 "2021-11-28T16:12:57Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > 1994 called and wants its racism back. It is to laugh. The racism is in thinking that they couldn’t possibly be armed, that black people are always victims, and other nonsense. The racism is in thinking that the white people involved in these issues must be evil, because of whiteness. It’s ridiculous. You can’t decide what actually happened based on the race of the people involved, only on the actual evidence. The narrative that blacks are all victims all the time is just as racist and damaging as the notion that they’re all criminals, and just as false. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-steophan/795678/110 "2021-11-28T16:18:57Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > > > Do you still believe those specific words of praise about Dunn? > > I have repeatedly said yes, I stand by them. People should stand up to bullies and defend themselves against them, I believe that to be praiseworthy behaviour. Then you won’t mind that I continue to bring them up. It’s a fact that you said, and apparently continue to believe, that the entirety of the person (you didn’t just praise an action - you praised the whole person) that is Michael Dunn, convicted child murderer, is “the sort of [person] normal people want around them”. This is what you believe about someone who shot at fleeing children, killed an unarmed child, and was demonstrated to have lied about it in court. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-steophan/795678/111 "2021-11-28T16:21:40Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > > [@Eonwe](#): > > > > 1994 called and wants its racism back. > > It is to laugh. The racism is in thinking that they couldn’t possibly be armed, that black people are always victims, and other nonsense. The racism is in thinking that the white people involved in these issues must be evil, because of whiteness. It’s ridiculous. You can’t decide what actually happened based on the race of the people involved, only on the actual evidence. The narrative that blacks are all victims all the time is just as racist and damaging as the notion that they’re all criminals, and just as false. There was a trial. Dunn was convicted beyond a reasonable doubt of murdering an unarmed child. Beyond a reasonable doubt, in a trial. And, for some reason, you’re doubling down on this evidence free 90s racist idea that these kids must have been armed. It is indeed to laugh. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-steophan/795678/112 "2021-11-28T16:23:37Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You can’t decide what actually happened based on the race of the people involved, only on the actual evidence. Unless they’re listening to gansta music? I’m not sure who you’re replying to in this post . . . I certainly haven’t been involved in this conversation at all, so definitely haven’t said anything like “black people are always victims”, “white people involved in these issues must be evil”, nor have I taken a position about what “actually happened” based on race. I just think it’s hilarious that someone can, with a straight face, accuse everyone else of racism while also taking a position that “listens to rap music” is relevant in determining whether someone might be armed or not. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-steophan/795678/113 "2021-11-28T16:25:14Z")
I’m wondering if he’s a white “Rhodesian” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-steophan/795678/114 "2021-11-28T16:35:00Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > It is to laugh. The racism is in thinking that they couldn’t possibly be armed, that black people are always victims, and other nonsense. No one ever said black people are always victims. That’s the thing. When you attack us, you constantly make up things we didn’t actually say. You seem to have issues with projection—if you believe X, then we must believe not X. The issue is remains that, in these cases, the idea of “self-defense” makes no fucking sense, because both of them put themselves into the situation where they would need to shoot people. The only saving grace I have with Rittenhouse is that he was responding to people on Facebook begging for vigilantes to come in and help them, and he’s a kid who maybe didn’t realize you shouldn’t do that. But, still, his victims died because he wanted to take the law into his own hands, just like Zimmerman. Still, the fact that their victims were scared of them doesn’t factor into it. It didn’t matter that we had proof Martin was scared enough to run. It didn’t matter how many people testified that Rosenbaum was trying to take the gun after he heard a gun shot. As I say, dead people don’t get self-defense rights. This is idiotic. It results in the situation being that it’s better to kill and take your chances on getting off in court than to resolve situations peacefully. That’s the last thing you want to do. The whole point of laws involving assault is to encourage peaceful resolutions without violence And, yeah, @iiandyiiii has you dead to rights. He showed a case where you don’t accept the court’s conviction as accurate. To us, we have to accept what the court says about Rittenhouse and Zimmerman, but you are free to disagree. You are free to make inferences based on the music preferences of the people involved. So either it is **you** who lacks a system of morality and goes just by your feelings, or you have to accept all of us are allowed to not required to accept the courts’ verdicts if we think the evidence doesn’t support it, or think the law being applies results in a worse outcome for everyone. Oh, and what music people listen to tells you nothing about whether they are armed. I can’t say I listen to rap or hip hop a lot, but I know a lot of people who do and none of us carry guns. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-steophan/795678/115 "2021-11-28T16:53:52Z")
Just for fun, here is my very favorite full post from our friend Steophan: > [@In which Steophan hijacks an ATMB thread about misogyny by accusing Blasey Ford of false accusation](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-steophan-hijacks-an-atmb-thread-about-misogyny-by-accusing-blasey-ford-of-false-accusation/843610/47): > > Also, apart from being tiny, my dick is fine. That’s the whole post. No snipping. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-steophan/795678/116 "2021-11-28T16:59:07Z")
So it appears that we have determined that Steophan, he of child-sized penis fame, is fond of child killers and kiddy diddlers as long as they focus on victims who are black. While that might be interesting from a psychological perspective, it’s really not worth continuing to observe from a message board perspective. Later racist! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-steophan/795678/117 "2021-11-28T18:20:34Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > He is presumed innocent, a not guilty verdict reaffirms that presumption. Only within the walls of the courtroom is this highly legalistic reading correct. As you may have noticed, none of us are within the walls of a courtroom. This is as stupid a misunderstanding of language as people who, based on chemistry, say, “Herp derp, all food is organic!” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-steophan/795678/118 "2021-11-28T18:41:46Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No, I’m a fan of the law being applied correctly, which means that Rittenhouse and Zimmerman are not murderous anythings. As I’ve said repeatedly in that thread though, despite your disingenuity in only linking to the OP, Arbery’s murderers were shown to not have been defending themselves but instead were attempting to assault and kidnap Arbery before they killed him. Nuance, something you should try sometime instead of getting upset every time a thug like the idiots that attacked Rittenhouse get what they deserve. > > You remain a liar, a hypocrite, and a person with no coherent moral code. You want people to live in fear of criminals, by not only wanting to prevent them from protecting themselves but also by preventing the police from protecting them. You are the reason it is so hard to vote for anything resembling even centre-left policies that might benefit people including myself, because it means putting myself at unacceptable risk. You are a dangerous, unprincipled and unethical person. Huh. Coulda sworn I’ve had you on Ignore for a number of months. No matter. Plonk. There; done. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2021, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-steophan/795678/119 "2021-12-02T18:21:12Z")
Christ, what an asshole. Now he’s over in the ATMB thread insisting that “if it’s true, it can’t possibly be insulting”. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2021, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-steophan/795678/120 "2021-12-02T18:26:36Z")
[quote=“engineer\_comp\_geek, post:12, topic:955062”] > [@Protesting a warning](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesting-a-warning/955062/2): > > \*\* pulls up a chair and takes a seat \*\* > [@Protesting a warning](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesting-a-warning/955062/3): > > Pass the popcorn ATMB is for resolving issues. The forum does not exist for your entertainment, and posts like these run very much counter to the purpose of this forum. Do not insult or belittle other’s posts outside of the Pit. Do not post snark or insult posts or posters in ATMB. ECG issued that note in the “Protesting a Warning” ATMB thread. I can see that, as it could be viewed as personally insulting to Steophan. In fairness, though, even before looking at who the OP is, who doesn’t look at an ATMB thread titled “Protesting a Warning” and look forward to someone making a conspicuous fool of themselves in an entertaining fashion? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-steophan/795678.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-steophan/795678.md?page=7)