# Pitting the ANC/South African govt **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 23, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-anc-south-african-govt/490494 "2009-03-23T19:39:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HumanMonkeyGod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c67d28/32.png) [@HumanMonkeyGod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HumanMonkeyGod)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-anc-south-african-govt/490494/1 "2009-03-23T19:39:09Z")
What a bunch of hypocritical cowards. Story in brief: Former Nobel peace prize winners Mandela, de Klerk and Desmond Tutu invited the Dalai Lama to a peace conference being held in SA next year. The SA govt this weekend refused the DL an entry visa, stating it was not in the country’s interests - after China warned it could “harm bilateral relations” between the two. This in fact on the weekend that Human Rights day is celebrated in SA. What a fucking joke. From govt spokesperson: “As far as the SA government is concerned, no invitation was extended to the Dalai Lama to visit South Africa,” Mamoepa said. “So therefore the question of the visas doesn’t exist.” How soon they forget. After spending half a century begging for help and support from the world for the oppression of its people within their own land, this is where they are now… it’s that easy to turn from oppressed to oppressor. De Klerk has stated he will not attend the conference if the DL is not there. Quote from Tutu: “If His Holiness’s visa is refused, then I won’t take part in the coming 2010 World Cup-related peace conference. I will condemn government’s behaviour as disgraceful, in line with our country’s abysmal record at the United Nations Security Council, a total betrayal of our struggle history. We are shamelessly succumbing to Chinese pressure. I feel deeply distressed and ashamed.” Mandela has nothing to say so far. No surprise there, as he is now little more than a showpiece for the ANC, something to trot out at political rallies and little more. [http://www.news24.com/News24/South\_Africa/Politics/0,,2-7-12\_2489758,00.html](http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,,2-7-12_2489758,00.html) Fuck the ANC. Fuck them all for being a bunch of lying greedy corrupt cowards tending to a country’s slow death. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-anc-south-african-govt/490494/2 "2009-03-23T19:58:16Z")
Considering how the visa weapon was used against South Africa in the past - you think they would be more mindful of how this looks politically. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-anc-south-african-govt/490494/3 "2009-03-23T20:07:18Z")
What’s China’s leverage? Do the Chinese sell a lot of arms to SA? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-anc-south-african-govt/490494/4 "2009-03-23T21:29:31Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > What’s China’s leverage? Do the Chinese sell a lot of arms to SA? South Africa is China’s biggest trading partner in Africa, and the two of them have a strong trade relationship. ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-anc-south-african-govt/490494/5 "2009-03-24T03:47:46Z")
‘In order to promote peace, and show our great record on civil rights, we will deny a major peace advocate his civil rights! Woohoo!’ The sad thing is, this almost certainly isn’t the most disturbing thing to come from the SA gov this month. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-anc-south-african-govt/490494/6 "2009-03-24T04:33:05Z")
To be fair to South Africa, they’re in a no-win situation here, and the ZA government undoubtedly feels that it’s not worth pissing off China over something like this. South Africa needs China a lot more than China needs South Africa. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-anc-south-african-govt/490494/7 "2009-03-24T11:35:00Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > To be fair to South Africa, they’re in a no-win situation here, and the ZA government undoubtedly feels that it’s not worth pissing off China over something like this. South Africa needs China a lot more than China needs South Africa. I think you’re wrong, and here’s why. China is powerful only so far as it can trade - and in the face of a dispute that will harm a sale, it will back down. The Dalai Lama comes to the U.S. all of the time, and the Chinese know better than to protest much. Nothing causes more grief to the Chinese government than the display of the Taiwanese flag at venues it considers inappropriate - which is nearly all of them. Do you think that stops trade across the Strait? If South Africa were to have made a stand, the Chinese would have grumbled and then backed down. They need to sell DVD players and bicycles there, and need to buy diamonds. The Dalai Lama wouldn’t have been permitted to interfere with that. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-anc-south-african-govt/490494/8 "2009-03-24T11:40:50Z")
I agree with the OP- very well put. Far more articulate than I could have done. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-anc-south-african-govt/490494/9 "2009-03-24T13:49:13Z")
> [@DaphneBlack](#): > > ‘In order to promote peace, and show our great record on civil rights, we will deny a major peace advocate his civil rights! Woohoo!’ You forgot to add … “so we don’t piss off the people we get our guns from.” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-anc-south-african-govt/490494/10 "2009-03-24T13:58:28Z")
This is, I’m afraid, no surprise. “Animal Farm” should be required reading in our schools, it’s so apt right now. ETA - I’m pretty sure the Chinese aren’t the major supplier of guns to SA. We produce our own - the[R4](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R4_assault_rifle)