# Pitting the attitude, not necessarily Evil Captor. Personal Responsibility- extinct? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 5, 2005, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-attitude-not-necessarily-evil-captor-personal-responsibility-extinct/297866 "2005-04-05T17:00:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-attitude-not-necessarily-evil-captor-personal-responsibility-extinct/297866/141 "2005-04-07T17:11:31Z")
There was a time when all sickness and disease was looked upon as “punishment”. It was ignorant and stupid, but no matter. There was a time when everyone “knew” cats were immature demons and must be killed. It contributed to the spread of the Black Death, but no matter. Now there are claims by “I don’t know or care who” that condoms don’t prevent AIDS, and one famous TV preacher calls it a “judgement by God”. It is ignorant and stupid. Sooner or later, people DO have to take responsibility. They have to say “This is bullshit”. They have to say “I know what the right thing to do is”. They have to say “This is a global pandemic and people are dying so forget the ‘philosophers’, safe in their little religious compounds”. There are people dying because of ignorance and misinformation. There are children born, only to slowly starve to death because there is no food for them, or because they are born with AIDS. There are people dying because of infected transfusions. I’m Catholic, but I don’t let anyone do my thinking for me. People are dying. All the rhetoric is crap. Save lives first, then worry about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-attitude-not-necessarily-evil-captor-personal-responsibility-extinct/297866/142 "2005-04-07T17:15:30Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > No, dipshit, _I_ didn’t mess up anything. The “reply” button simply repeated your hash. That’s why I concentrated on your misspellings, and false accusations, you naughty and incontinent collector of celebrity nasal mucus. > [@RedFury](#): > > Then WTF are you doing here defending the RCC’s anachronistic – and lying – stance towards condoms in particular and sexual education in general? Well, if you had read the thread instead of being distracted by the task of ensuring your dog’s loyalty by masturbating him, you would have noticed that I am defending the Church’s attitudes where I feel they are valid, and not when they aren’t. I realize that the tertiary syphilis from which you obviously suffer has made it impossible for you to conceptualize a concept more subtle than “Catholic - BAD! Any suggestion that people ought to control their zippers - BAD! Condoms - GOOD! Indiscriminate promiscuity - GOOD!” , but others here are less limited. You sucker of syphilitic sloth weinies. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-attitude-not-necessarily-evil-captor-personal-responsibility-extinct/297866/143 "2005-04-07T17:29:50Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > There are people dying because of ignorance and misinformation. There are children born, only to slowly starve to death because there is no food for them, or because they are born with AIDS. There are people dying because of infected transfusions. > > I’m Catholic, but I don’t let anyone do my thinking for me. People are dying. All the rhetoric is crap. Save lives first, then worry about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Would that the other Catholics in this thread tattoo the above paragraph to their – obviously narrow – foreheads so they could read it every time they looked at themselves in the mirror. You sir, have my respect and admiration. **Shodan** , Act your freakin’ age, not your IQ. Using a [Random Insult Generator](http://www.insultmonger.com/generators/) is beyond pathetic. Cumstain. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-attitude-not-necessarily-evil-captor-personal-responsibility-extinct/297866/144 "2005-04-07T18:25:08Z")
> [@Me](#): > > Where did I make the claim that fornication was bad? I made two claims about fornication- that the Catholic Church holds it to be sinful, and that it is statistically more likely to spread AIDS than chastity. WHERE did I make the claim that fornication is bad? > [@Red Fury](#): > > For starters, right in the above sentence, you clueless git. Unless calling something “sinful” is good in your addled mind. Clueless? Me? You’re the one who can’t read. I said the **Catholic Church holds it to be sinful**. How in the world do you get **my** opinion out of that? My point is that you can’t expect the Church to condone the responsible execution of an act to which it is opposed. My point is that you can’t blame the Church’s stance on condoms for spreading AIDS when the Church’s stance on fornication renders the next step moot. Answer that contention. I’m almost entirely sure you won’t. You’re not the first idiot in this thread, but you’re gunning for the title of biggest. My sweet goodness. This thread IS NOT ABOUT ME OR MY BELIEFS. This thread is about putting blame where it belongs- on people who engage in high-risk behavior and then blame the Church for not condoning that behavior with a nod to safety. Read the OP. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-attitude-not-necessarily-evil-captor-personal-responsibility-extinct/297866/145 "2005-04-07T18:46:42Z")
> [@Happy etc.](#): > > This thread IS NOT ABOUT ME OR MY BELIEFS You’re dummer than a fencepost, and much less useful to boot. From your OWN FREAKIN’ OP: > [@Happy etc.](#): > > The Church is going to say, **and I am going to say with them** : “Show a little fucking restraint, you moron.” So, what do **you** have against fucking between consenting adults wearing a rubber, scuzzball? ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-attitude-not-necessarily-evil-captor-personal-responsibility-extinct/297866/146 "2005-04-07T19:08:54Z")
> [@Happy Scrappy Hero Pup](#): > > .My sweet goodness. This thread IS NOT ABOUT ME OR MY BELIEFS. Now, I was thinking about whether to hit the Report Bad Post button, Until I did and I saw the following. > [@whoever writes the text of the buttons](#): > > Note: This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising messages, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts. Hmm. Well, he maybe rude, but that is true for many people, and he is certainly being irrational, but that is what a pitting is for. However, all this insisting that we stick to the oppy certainly seems against the spirit of the board. What does he expect? Does he think if someone uses odd and bizarre arguments, that we will not comment, but instead argue a point we do not believe? I guess what I am saying is can we get a referee, I mean a mod here, to give some perspective? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-attitude-not-necessarily-evil-captor-personal-responsibility-extinct/297866/147 "2005-04-07T19:17:29Z")
OK, idiot. Here you go before I ignore you too. **My opinion:** Fornication is ridiculously likely to get you some of that there AIDS that’s going around Africa, even if the risk is somehow lessened by your use of a condom. So it’s dumb. Show a little restraint, you moron. **The Catholic Church’s opinion:** Fornication is sinful. Plus, it’s ridiculously likely to get you some of that there AIDS that’s going around Africa. Condoms? Well, for one, they’re against teachings, for two, they’re not as effective as you think and even that effectiveness is lessened by improper use, and for three, you shouldn’t have to ask because you shouldn’t be fornicating, most importantly because we say so, but also because it’s ridiculously likely to get you some of that there AIDS that’s going around Africa. So what happens when Joe Dumbass goes off a-fornicatin’ and ends up with that there AIDS? **Joe says** , “Stupid Church. If you’d let me wear a condom, I wouldn’t have this here AIDS.” **Church says** , “Joe, condom or no, you still stood a chance of getting that there AIDS. So not only have you sinned, you’ve ignored the foolproof method in favor of releasing your urges with a less-safe one, and now you’ve got costs to pay.” **I say** , “Dumbass, if you’d kept it in your pants, none of this would have happened.” What I have against fucking between consenting adults while wearing a rubber has nothing to do with this Pitting, scuzzball. This pitting is about guys like Joe Dumbass. That’s how it started. That’s the point I came here to make, that’s the point I will continue to defend. If you want to assign beliefs to me and then demand that I defend them, you’re going to run out of breath long before you get a rise out of me. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-attitude-not-necessarily-evil-captor-personal-responsibility-extinct/297866/148 "2005-04-07T19:24:27Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > So, what do **you** have against fucking between consenting adults wearing a rubber, scuzzball? Not directed at me, but I’ll answer, since you asked on a message board that you’ve spent some time slamming my religion on… It’s immoral. Fucking of any kind between unmarried persons is immoral. Fucking between married persons must be open to the possibility of the transmission of life, so wearing a condom in that situation is immoral. You may not agree. That’s fine… neither my assertion nor your disagreement is subject to proof. There is no definitive source of morality upon which we both agree. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-attitude-not-necessarily-evil-captor-personal-responsibility-extinct/297866/149 "2005-04-07T19:24:41Z")
Oh, **Scott.** You have GOT to be kidding me. In you come with your Homestar Runner, your webtoons, your “look how clever I am rearranging your words,” and now you’re announcing that _you_ want closer scrutiny on the debate in this thread? You, with _your_ record? Man, you’re gutsier than that boy who cried “wolf.” I am confident that my position has been constant and that I have not done anything even remotely hostile without provocation. I contend further that you have done nothing to foster open discussion, and, while this may be the Pit, you are disrupting what is or could be a decent exchange of positions. I await the decision of the referees. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-attitude-not-necessarily-evil-captor-personal-responsibility-extinct/297866/150 "2005-04-07T19:26:49Z")
So, you have a straw man, a church opinion, and your own opinion, and you are defending the existence of all three. That must get tiring. I feel sorry for your having to carry all that weight. Are you married? If not, I propose that you yourself take the course of action that would lead to your being chemically castrated. Not because I don’t like you, but to show you how it is to really be celibate, not the kind that we can see often fails in real life. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-attitude-not-necessarily-evil-captor-personal-responsibility-extinct/297866/151 "2005-04-07T19:38:47Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > **Shodan** , > > Act your freakin’ age, not your IQ. > > Using a [Random Insult Generator](http://www.insultmonger.com/generators/) is beyond pathetic. > > Cumstain. Wrong again, oh Ye of the Small Genitalia and Over-sized Yap. I am perfectly capable of thinking up ways of cataloging your shortcomings without resort to artificial means. Be off with you, you vile caitiff, or I shall insult you even more cruelly than before, you warmed-over thimbleful of weasel smegma. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-attitude-not-necessarily-evil-captor-personal-responsibility-extinct/297866/152 "2005-04-07T19:42:54Z")
> [@Scott\_plaid](#): > > Are you married? If not, I propose that you yourself take the course of action that would lead to your being chemically castrated. Not because I don’t like you, but to show you how it is to really be celibate, not the kind that we can see often fails in real life. What would this prove? ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-attitude-not-necessarily-evil-captor-personal-responsibility-extinct/297866/153 "2005-04-07T19:47:10Z")
It would show how much celibacy affects daily life. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-attitude-not-necessarily-evil-captor-personal-responsibility-extinct/297866/154 "2005-04-07T19:52:37Z")
> [@Scott\_plaid](#): > > It would show how much celibacy affects daily life. Well, _I_ am married. So now I have no reason to be celibate. Chaste - yes, of course. Celibate, no. Before I was married I was celibate for some periods of time. Some of that was by choice, and some of that time was that I would have dearly loved to be having sex, but no one was around that I wanted to have sex with. And, yes, some of the time before I was married was me acting in a way that I now view as immoral, having sex without benefit of marriage. I think I have at least some handle on how celibacy affects daily life. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-attitude-not-necessarily-evil-captor-personal-responsibility-extinct/297866/155 "2005-04-07T20:06:16Z")
Oh, **H.S.H.P.** You have GOT to be kidding me. In I come with my Homestar Runner, my webtoons, my “look how rearranging the words shows holes in the arguments,” and now I announcing that it looks like you want_you_ want closer scrutiny on the debate in this thread, as do I. I don’t see why not. After all. I am not making up quotes and attributing the to you, but am instead simply repeating similar phrases, with no use of the quote box. In addition, since I sometimes use catchphrase, it seem like a good idea to link to their source, rather than assuming people knows what it means, but really leaving them wondering. In addition, in post 105 you said > [@](#): > > “You’ve been brought to heel more than a few times, and you will be again.” In post 107, I challenged you to name more than one. I do not recall a response. Now you are saying: > [@](#): > > You, with _your_ record? Man, you’re gutsier than that boy who cried “wolf.” What record? Even I thread I am least proud of, when I was shouting the loudest, I seem to recall people saying, “You may be technically right, but really, does it matter?” So tell me, what record? I am confident that my position has been constant. Period. I have certainly spoke in a hostile manner, but this **is** the pit. If you mean a record of having people be angry at me, I don’t see the problem, since having people angry at you does not, by itself mean you are either wrong or right. I contend further that this can not be a decent exchange of positions, since there is nothing in the OP to really debate I await the decision of the referees. Oh, and thank you for the honest answer, Bricker, but I meant to ask H.S.H.P. that question ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-attitude-not-necessarily-evil-captor-personal-responsibility-extinct/297866/156 "2005-04-07T20:14:28Z")
The RCC and Happy, going head to head to see who’s the dumbest fuck! > [@RCC](#): > > Joe, condom or no, you still stood a chance of getting that there AIDS 'cept for the UNDENIABLE FACT the Church **refuses to ackowledge** that Joe’s odds of being infected with the AIDS virus increase nearly one hundredfold _without_ the rubber… [Do Condoms Prevent Aids?](http://www.condoms4life.org/facts/CondomsAndAIDS.htm) > [@](#): > > Claims that latex condoms allow HIV to pass through are unfounded. The pores of latex condoms are too small to allow HIV to pass through. Condoms have been shown to be effective barriers not only to HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, but also to herpes simplex, CMV, hepatitis B, chlamydia and gonorrhea.2 > > While condoms are not foolproof, they are highly effective in preventing HIV infection. According to the CDC, studies examining sexually active people at high risk for contracting HIV have found that “even with repeated sexual contact, 98-100% of those people who used latex condoms correctly and consistently did not become infected.3 The CDC recently issued prevention guidelines for state health departments that state “correct and consistent use of latex condoms can reduce the risk of sexually transmitted infections.4 On August 16, 2001, the United Nations Joint Programme on HIV/AIDS and the World Health Organization issued a statement that said that condoms were “the best defense” in preventing sexually transmitted diseases, including HIV/AIDS.5\*\*[/color] Hmm…lemme think. Unprotected sex, odds of getting STD, HIGH. Wear rubber, **98-100 fuckin’ percent decrease**. Gee…what to do, what to do? Listen to the morons with the pointy hats or crack a Trojan? > [@Happy etc.](#): > > “Dumbass, if you’d kept it in your pants, none of this would have happened.” Hmm…see, myself and just about every fuckin’ normal and healthy human being, _likes to take it out of his pants_…and not just to pee. So no, no, certainly not a _realistic_ option. > [@Happy etc.](#): > > What I have against fucking between consenting adults while wearing a rubber has nothing to do with this Pitting, scuzzball. Repeating lie does little to augment its truth value. Fact is, you’ve been advocating celibacy or else right from your nutty OP. [Good Catholics Use Condoms](http://www.condoms4life.org/news/2003/12012003worldAIDSdayPR.htm) > [@](#): > > The Vatican’s allegations about condoms deny scientific fact and cost some people their lives ([Total number of AIDS deaths since the beginning of the epidemic until end 2001: 21.8 million](http://www.condoms4life.org/facts/FactsFigures.htm)) > > “ We cannot stand by and let the Vatican go unchallenged with its irresponsible attitude towards condoms and Catholics,” stated Frances Kissling, president of CFFC, an advocacy organization of Catholics who disagree with Vatican positions on sexuality and reproduction. “Cardinals and bishops must promote a culture of life in which responsible sexuality and AIDS prevention are linked; not a culture of death which will result in more AIDS ravaged communities, especially in the developing world.” Catholics need to know that using condoms doesn’t make one a bad Catholic. In fact, using condoms to protect themselves and their partners is part of being good Catholics. > > _Much more at source_ Fight your own ignorance, asswipe. When come back, bring argument. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-attitude-not-necessarily-evil-captor-personal-responsibility-extinct/297866/157 "2005-04-07T20:24:22Z")
Fight my own igorance? I had an argument from minute one. You’ve just been avoiding it. **My argument is that “100% effective” is better than "99% effective."** My argument is that saying you followed Church law and didn’t wear a condom is not an excuse to blame the Church when, if you had actually been following Church law, you wouldn’t have been fornicating. Of course, you knew all this. You just want to fight for everyone’s right to indiscriminately take it out of their pants. Go right ahead. Consider yourself ignored. I’m done with this thread until we get a voice of reason. ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-attitude-not-necessarily-evil-captor-personal-responsibility-extinct/297866/158 "2005-04-07T20:24:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Not directed at me, but I’ll answer, since you asked on a message board that you’ve spent some time slamming my religion on… > > It’s immoral. > > Fucking of any kind between unmarried persons is immoral. Fucking between married persons must be open to the possibility of the transmission of life, so wearing a condom in that situation is immoral. > > You may not agree. > > That’s fine… neither my assertion nor your disagreement is subject to proof. There is no definitive source of morality upon which we both agree. And this is why the world population will be topping seven billion before I die, why people in third world countries are crammed thirty people to a room, why millions of people starve to death and die from conditions directly relating to sub-standard living conditions. I agree that people should exercise some fucking restraint (ha, ha) but some other people need to open their eyes to fucking reality. A quarter of the babies born in sub-Saharan Africa are infected with HIV. Overpopulation is out of control; we don’t see it in the Western world because most of the Western world has been educated about birth control, which is why “culture of life” enthusiasts have taken their hopelessly idealistic messages to the great ignorant masses of Africa and India. All this crap about human life being precious doesn’t mean shit when we can’t even take care of the human beings we have. A priest who tells a woman with eleven starving children crammed into a mud hut how to take simple precautions to prevent further births (aside from telling her not to have sex with her husband, who she dearly loves) isn’t propagating the culture of life. Unless the culture of life means bringing as many souls into the world as possible, baptizing them, and allowing them to die of starvation and overpopulation-related diseases so they can go to your precious Heaven. I think a definite source of morality on which we all (or should all) agree is that children should be entitled to a standard of living that doesn’t mean that a quarter of them DIE before they reach the age of eighteen. I seriously think Catholics want to keep the population rate up and keep the education rate down so they’ll have a veritable army of followers, since sinful Americans and Europeans figured out how to balance their birth rate so that their societies weren’t crushed under the weight of their own populations. I’m not talking about babies born out of wedlock, I’m talking about those babies born within. What the hell is wrong with a wife and husband expressing love for one another without the possibility of it turning into a birth? Where in the Bible does it say recreational sex between spouses is wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-attitude-not-necessarily-evil-captor-personal-responsibility-extinct/297866/159 "2005-04-07T20:25:39Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > 'cept for the UNDENIABLE FACT the Church **refuses to ackowledge** that Joe’s odds of being infected with the AIDS virus increase nearly one hundredfold _without_ the rubber… > > > [@](#): > > > > …According to the CDC, studies examining sexually active people at high risk for contracting HIV have found that “even with repeated sexual contact, 98-100% of those people who used latex condoms correctly and consistently did not become infected. > > Hmm…lemme think. Unprotected sex, odds of getting STD, HIGH. Wear rubber, **98-100 fuckin’ percent decrease**. Nope. There’s one step missing from your otherwise iron-clad analysis. What percentage of condom users use only latex condoms, and use them correctly and consistently? If it’s 5% then I think you’ll agree the Church is right on the money. If it’s 99.999999% percent then there may be a problem with the Church’s teaching. At some point in between 5% and 99.999999% there’s a cut-off point. What is it? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-attitude-not-necessarily-evil-captor-personal-responsibility-extinct/297866/160 "2005-04-07T20:27:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Not directed at me, but I’ll answer, since you asked on a message board that you’ve spent some time slamming my religion on… > > It’s immoral. > > Fucking of any kind between unmarried persons is immoral. Fucking between married persons must be open to the possibility of the transmission of life, so wearing a condom in that situation is immoral. > > You may not agree. > > That’s fine… neither my assertion nor your disagreement is subject to proof. There is no definitive source of morality upon which we both agree. Oh, fuck off, **Bricker** and the high horse you rode in on! You’re just the type of warmongering asshole that shouldn’t be taking about _any kind of morality_. Religious? Yeah sure, when it fits your hypocritical wingnut ass. And **Shodan**? Blow me. That way we can measure how many inches you can swallow. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-attitude-not-necessarily-evil-captor-personal-responsibility-extinct/297866.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-attitude-not-necessarily-evil-captor-personal-responsibility-extinct/297866.md?page=9)