If this is covered by the time I get to the end of the thread then please forgive me, I’m going to reply to this now while it’s still fresh for me.
You’re ignoring the part about the church giving false information about the effectiveness of condoms. so to make your example complete it should go like this:
If you tell me I should only eat vegetables and that cooking pork has no effect on trichinosis, then I can certainly share the blame with you if I get sick.
It makes no difference. The damage done is still the same. Now if The Cardinal is walking the walk and talking the talk, misrepresenting himself as if he were an expert, then that in and of itself makes him a liar. Your question can be looked at on so many different levels. To me, if someone speaks under the mantle of authority, he better have the authority and the wisdom and the knowledge. If he is so woefully ignorant, then he has lied in claiming to be an genuine “authority”.
Granted, but there’s nothing to stop us from at the same time as we use other orgs to educate, calling the Catholics on those motherfucking lies of theirs.
Rex, have you read the thread? If you have, you would probably notice that were are saying that your leaders, not you personally, are lying about the effectiveness of condoms.
Not quite, I think you are not taking into account that HIV is not especially infectious via sexual contact. If you were to have sex once with a carrier the chances are slim that you would be infected. The decrease in comparitive risk a condom user gets is 90% according to the WHO.
I have read the thread…and posted in the thread before this. I am responding to EC’s:
When I read something like this, you know I’m dealing with a loose cannon who doesn’t give a rip about generalizing…When I see “the Catholics”, I’m not going out of my way to assume that he means “the [1 billion] Catholics”. If EC learned to focus his anger and pick the people/issues of his criticisms better, then I guarantee you that this thread would be more to the point and would only take about a fourth of posts to get where we are now.
Ah, that’s better. And I’ve noticed that other posters don’t read all of the posts in this thread either, including the OP. Post 176
I’ve already answered this…I just happen to do this below your radar when you have Bricker, HSHP, Shodan and others on your radar. Trujillo needs to stick to the abstainance policy and not distort the use of condoms when he misinterprets/distorts the facts about them. Unbiased truth is needed from both the religious and secular world.
You know EC, I should be used to all of your overgeneralizations when you post in the Pit by now, but I (and presumably others) shouldn’t just sit there and let you constantly rant about whole parties, religious groups, corporations, etc. just because there are subsets of these groups that set you off on a regular basis. I have to call you on it…it’s not black and white…it’s a billion shades of gray.
Just because Lenin oversaw the death of many religious people in the name of an atheist government, doesn’t mean I have a legitimate reason to Pit all other athiests who don’t share Lenin’s viewpoint. I get that, but there are some Dopers here that are myopic to this. Don’t throw me in that batch…I don’t belong there.
Its relationship with lying is similar to the way manslaughter is with murder. Whereas lying requires intentional untruth, Truthslaughter only requires reckless disregard for whether what you say it true or not.
The Cardinal is certainly guilty of Truthslaughter.
Another conservative rhetorical trick (actually, anyone can use it) is focussing on a single phrase or whatever and generalizing from it all sorts of things. In this case, Yeticus is pretending that because I used “the Catholics” to stand for “the leadership of the Catholic Church and all those who support them in their condom-lying, or support them unthinkingly”) that I don’t have a point when I say the Catholic Church is responsible for some nasty evil shit wrt the African AIDS crisis. The way to handle that is to focus on the main point, which is whether or not the Catholic leadership (and their supporters) are responsible for some nasty evil shit wrt to the African AIDS crisis. Yeticus doesn’t want to argue that point, because he doesn’t have a leg to stand on, so he focusses on this turn of phrase. Sorry, won’t work here, Yeticus. Try some more naive message board.
Well, there ya go.
Maybe you do, maybe you don’t. Fact is, if you’re a Catholic and you’re tithing your church and supporting it and helping out, SOME of what you do is helping guys like Trujillo. And the ones who are fighting birth control in Third World countries. Maybe you don’t like this or that policy, but my feeling is that people need to think a lot harder about the activities of large organizations and groups they belong to. This notion that 'I can be a devout Catholic and yet not help the Catholic Church promote policies that I find abhorrent in any way" smells like all kinds of bullshit to me, Yeticus.
No trick was employed here, just me calling you out on one of your many overgeneralizations. It’s up to you to be more precise and not up to me or other readers to understand what you are REALLY trying to say. You already know my viewpoint, because I was precise when I explained it the first time. But since you can’t do that on your own, you tell me that I am employing “a trick” :rolleyes: by calling you out on it AFTER I already addressed the issue. It pays to read. I already acknowledged that you had a point, it’s your method of delivering the point in you posts when you spout off and knock over your overflowing drool cup in the process.
Yup…There I go.
Yeah, and this Catholic also unwillingly pays state taxes that in turns subsidizes abortions, fed taxes for wars and pork barrel spending, and other not so pleasant things. But, since I learned something in this thread, I will express my disagreement with Trujillo (and others like him - the ignorant or deceptive) in a form of a letter the next time I donate to the World Development Fund. As already pointed out by other posters, not all Catholics themselves follow the Vatican policy when it comes to condom usage and would readily disagree with the methods employed by Trujillo, myself included. That doesn’t mean I throw away the Church because of Trujillo…instead I would try to change the view of the Church by asking/demanding Trujillo to change his view or get out of that position that in turn harms the African population.
Yup…every catholic is guilty until proven innocent. :rolleyes: I also realize that your constant calls for bullshit are disingenuous because like the boy that cries “wolf”, they become increasingly ignored as rhetoric itself. Moderation is the key. After all, this OP was actually about PITTING YOUR ATTITUDE, but not necessarily the person the person who had the viewpoint. Don’t make yourself irrelevant with your overgeneralizations…I am not your enemy.
You know what, Yeticus? Unlike taxes, you don’t have to tithe to the church. In fact, withdrawing your donations is probably the most effective means you have to convince the leadership of the catholic church to change their minds.
Way ahead of you, B. Rather than just “Shutting it down” that you are advocating, I can just redirect my donations to another cause within the Church. Very similar to donating/voting for candidates that have close to the same views as I do. Thanks for the advice though.