# Pitting the computer nerds who design pop-up messages in cyberbabble! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 6, 2007, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-computer-nerds-who-design-pop-up-messages-in-cyberbabble/386937 "2007-01-06T15:51:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-computer-nerds-who-design-pop-up-messages-in-cyberbabble/386937/41 "2007-01-10T16:03:08Z")
**Dead Badger** , not to expose my own braindeadery, but how else would you do it? ---
**Author:** ![ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c77e96/32.png) [@ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ed)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-computer-nerds-who-design-pop-up-messages-in-cyberbabble/386937/42 "2007-01-10T16:12:48Z")
[QUOTE=tdn] **Dead Badger** , not to expose my own braindeadery, but how else would you do it? [/QUOTE] Well, you could just access array[n] directly, but then if you’re consulting at an hourly rate it’s not nearly as lucrative. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-computer-nerds-who-design-pop-up-messages-in-cyberbabble/386937/43 "2007-01-10T16:15:51Z")
[QUOTE=tdn] **Dead Badger** , not to expose my own braindeadery, but how else would you do it? [/QUOTE] If you don’t want to feel embarrassed, don’t read any further… X = ArrayName(n). ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-computer-nerds-who-design-pop-up-messages-in-cyberbabble/386937/44 "2007-01-10T16:22:25Z")
Ah, I see. Of course. I guess I was assuming that you would not initially know which element of the array you needed to return. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-computer-nerds-who-design-pop-up-messages-in-cyberbabble/386937/45 "2007-01-10T16:25:36Z")
But he stopped when i = n, so he knew. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-computer-nerds-who-design-pop-up-messages-in-cyberbabble/386937/46 "2007-01-10T16:29:52Z")
Damn, I almost forgot again. Meant to mention this earlier. Same guy as before, different day. This is a paraphrase of a VB subroutine he wrote: ```auto Sub MySub() Dim MyVariable 'Lottsa code... If MyVariable = 5 Then Exit Sub End If End Sub ``` It would exit the sub anyway, regardless of the value of MyVariable. End Sub immediately follows End If. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-computer-nerds-who-design-pop-up-messages-in-cyberbabble/386937/47 "2007-01-10T16:45:48Z")
[QUOTE=tdn] I guess I was assuming that you would not initially know which element of the array you needed to return. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I could’ve been clearer. I was going to write the code but I figured I’d cock up the VB syntax and become a victim of Dorky Gaudere. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-computer-nerds-who-design-pop-up-messages-in-cyberbabble/386937/48 "2007-01-10T16:59:07Z")
I once worked with a guy that wrote code this way: ```auto Sub MySub() Dim MyVariable 'Lottsa code... If MyVariable = 5 Then Exit Sub End If End Sub ``` Yes, with those sorts of indentations. Usually there were far more than 7 lines of code, though. Hundreds or thousands, mostly. ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-computer-nerds-who-design-pop-up-messages-in-cyberbabble/386937/49 "2007-01-10T19:14:57Z")
[QUOTE=Rick] Yes but not all cars have text displays. [/quote] It wouldn’t cost much to have a simple text display instead of a light bulb behind a little engine logo. > [@](#): > > Also Check engine confuses people enough, having a display that says P0102 isn’t going to help. Sure it would. I can easily use that code to find out how the problem will affect driveability of the car and even some possible ways to fix the car, potentially saving me hundreds of dollars. > **[P0102 Mass Airflow (MAF) Circuit High](https://www.obd-codes.com/p0102)** > > How to quickly diagnose, repair, and info on symptoms and causes of a P0102 MAF mass airflow code which indicates a low condition in the MAF circuit. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-computer-nerds-who-design-pop-up-messages-in-cyberbabble/386937/50 "2007-01-10T19:58:17Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] That’s one part of the job I hate most. And it isn’t just in reporting it to the users, but to myself. I’ve devised all sorts of message tables, log files, error classes, and whatnot. But seldom is anything I’ve designed both handy and informative. [/QUOTE] There’s a simple answer really. As a coding golden-rule, any error message that is ever potentially displayable in a dialog box should have _two_ messages; a common end-user message, and a developer/techie message. The OP’s example could have been written as: “User alert: Minesweeper was unable to find a necessary data file and failed to start. Developer note: The SHLWAPI.DLL file is linked to missing export MSVCRT.DLL:\_wtol” That way, the end-user at least know generally what went wrong, and useful error information is still passed to one who has the expertise to analyze the error. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-computer-nerds-who-design-pop-up-messages-in-cyberbabble/386937/51 "2007-01-10T20:19:13Z")
Yeah, that would work if the coder for mindsweeper returned his error messages that way. My understanding (and I could be wrong) was that this was a problem in a tertiary file. A printer driver or something. And then there are SQL Server errors with useless information like: Ambiguous syntax at “’”. Or “Field name not found.” Why not go ahead and give me what field it is? Or which frigging apostrophe? And the one that really riles my ass. Errors from VB like: Expected “Then”. Well, hell, if you expected it, just add it and go on, dammit! ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-computer-nerds-who-design-pop-up-messages-in-cyberbabble/386937/52 "2007-01-10T20:44:29Z")
[QUOTE=tdn] **Lib** , that’s a clear case of a moron who needs to be bitch slapped until he finds a new profession. Preferably one in management, where such braindeadery is expected. [/QUOTE] No, no, no. Sales. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-computer-nerds-who-design-pop-up-messages-in-cyberbabble/386937/53 "2007-01-10T20:51:41Z")
How many of you have ever tried to write good error messages for a reasonably complex program? The problem is lack of context, and the fact that guessing the cause of the error will totally confuse the user more often than not - since you’ll be wrong. I got a similar error when trying to open a file on the new version of Quicken I just installed on my wife’s computer. After a short chat with a support guy who seemed to know someone, he directed me to a hidden error page. It seems that installing over the demo version doesn’t work, and you have to reinstall in a new directory. Now, how someone writing the code to open a file would ever guess this is beyond me. I suspect a lot of pages giving resolutions for error messages get written after the code is released and tney see how things are screwed up. It’s better to expect to Google than to expect the error messages to anticipate the root cause of all problems. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-computer-nerds-who-design-pop-up-messages-in-cyberbabble/386937/54 "2007-01-10T20:55:32Z")
[QUOTE=Aquila Be] I’ve actually tried that and got nothing and nowhere. Every time I log on to my 2 month old Dell, after half an hour of use I invariably get this blue box flash up in the middle of the screen: - “Error Access violation at 0x01997793 (tried to read from 0x040A1025), Program terminated.” clicking on “OK” seems to solve the problem, whatever it was. [/QUOTE] Not to alarm you, and all, but that error might be a bug-ridden virus or, possibly, spyware. It could be running happily until it meets some unexpected condition and crashes. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-computer-nerds-who-design-pop-up-messages-in-cyberbabble/386937/55 "2007-01-10T21:42:43Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] No, no, no. Sales. 😉 [/QUOTE] It really depends on the hair. Good hair = sales. Bad hair = management. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-computer-nerds-who-design-pop-up-messages-in-cyberbabble/386937/56 "2007-01-10T22:49:48Z")
[QUOTE=tdn] It really depends on the hair. Good hair = sales. Bad hair = management. [/QUOTE] Bad teeth=[BOFH](http://www.theregister.co.uk/odds/bofh/)😛 ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-computer-nerds-who-design-pop-up-messages-in-cyberbabble/386937/57 "2007-01-11T01:00:10Z")
One of those computer nerds chiming in to point out that most error messages _are not meant for the user_. Sure, if you’re typing in your email address, and you put a # instead of an @, the error message should let you know that you need to type it back in. That’s something you can fix. When you see a cryptic error message that you don’t understand, just imagine that it says “Wow, something went _really_ wrong back there, and there is no way you you can fix it. Here’s some technical junk to tell to someone who can fix it for you.” ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-computer-nerds-who-design-pop-up-messages-in-cyberbabble/386937/58 "2007-01-11T05:42:37Z")
[QUOTE=iamthewalrus(:3=] When you see a cryptic error message that you don’t understand, just imagine that it says “Wow, something went _really_ wrong back there, and there is no way you you can fix it. Here’s some technical junk to tell to someone who can fix it for you.” [/QUOTE] Sorry, but that’s patently not true. Over the years, i’ve had a bunch of error messages which, with some Googling, i’ve been able to decipher and then fix the problem. Just the other day, my wife’s laptop popped up an error message after Windows started up. I wrote done the message, including the error number, and plugged it into Google. Sure enough, it turns out that there was a problem with Windows Defender that i then fixed relatively easily. This sort of thing has happened a bunch of times. Now, it may be that writing a plain-text, easy-to-understand error message for all possible errors is completely impractical, but it’s just plain wrong to suggest that every cryptic error message represents some sort of catastrophic problem that only a paid expert can fix. ---
**Author:** ![Aquila\_Be](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a698b9/32.png) [@Aquila\_Be](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquila_Be)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-computer-nerds-who-design-pop-up-messages-in-cyberbabble/386937/59 "2007-01-11T07:21:43Z")
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara] Not to alarm you, and all, but that error might be a bug-ridden virus or, possibly, spyware. It could be running happily until it meets some unexpected condition and crashes. [/QUOTE] Good Lord. If that’s right I must have got it in the first two weeks. I have Spyware Detector, supposed to be one of the best (and not free as my unofficial advisor claims the free stuff is not worth it). Also McAfee. I think I’ll wait for a while and see. The tower unit weighs about three tons. ---
**Author:** ![Aquila\_Be](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a698b9/32.png) [@Aquila\_Be](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquila_Be)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-computer-nerds-who-design-pop-up-messages-in-cyberbabble/386937/60 "2007-01-11T07:35:51Z")
[QUOTE=Aquila Be] The tower unit weighs about three tons. [/QUOTE] Sorry. I’m exaggerating. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-computer-nerds-who-design-pop-up-messages-in-cyberbabble/386937.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-computer-nerds-who-design-pop-up-messages-in-cyberbabble/386937.md?page=4)