not much of a sense of humour then, eh?
It’s fuckin’ hysterical. Here’s a quarter - go buy a sense of humor.
I’m going to need a quarter as well. Alternatively, you could save the coinage and share your sense of humor with us.
Actually, IIRC, part of the problem was that it got so hot that fans became useless.
And it’s obvious, reading French media, that there are serious repercussions. No one, I think, doubts that someone screwed up badly for this to happen.
Not serious enough that France is going to order some air conditoners? Seriously, this is something I would expect to happen in a, sorry, Third World Country.
Do we need to send France used ACs from the United States to save the elderly from the apparent acceptance of social Darwinism based on age and heat tolerance?
It’s irrelevant what country, nationality, or ethnic group you are in. If you are away on a 4-week holiday and you hear about people being sick and ill back home from the heat, what kind of person does not call to say “Hey folks - are you OK?”
The problem is the OP is too vague and undefined. Pick on specific people that did these acts, not the “French”.
Although I will note that a past single French person (a client of mine) did go out of his way on several occasions to point out how “stupid and wasteful” (his words) our habit of having air conditioners in our homes and cars was - even to the point of jabbing his finger at the AC control in my car and shaking his head in disbelief. Odd, since every car I’ve ridden in in France has an AC as well… He also brushed over the fact that Kansas is quite a bit hotter and more humid than France is, and I imagine most people from a cooler clime like France would be hiding in basements during one of our 40-45 C and 50% RH Summers.
Then again, I’ve also had clients over from the UK who were astounded that treated water was used for public fountains, and they went out of their way to say how wasteful that was. Well, hey, we have this thing about cholera and dysentery…we kinda don’t like them. And it’s odd that every public fountain I’ve seen in the UK was treated as well…
I think it’s just an “ignorant asshole who likes to bitch about things” problem. Nationality is not a prerequisite.
I concur. I’m still chuckling. Also…
This is weird to me. A couple of years ago I had to ask someone what, exactly, “whinge” meant because I hadn’t seen it before, and I’ve certainly never heard anyone in America actually say it. Brits, yes; Merkins, no. So I’d agree that it’s a Britishism.
jovan: while she only went there for a two week vacation, her impression was that in Paris, anyway, fans were a rare commodity. Given a good working fan and a wet towel wrapped around your head, you could probably survive the heat - not comfortably, but you could survive.
Again, she had the only fan in the place she was staying - admittedly not luxurious, but that’s the point. She stayed in an apartment rather than a hotel, so she was right in the midst of Parisian life. Her impression was that fans just weren’t around much. And the one she got barely worked anyway.
I don’t know if you’ve lived in the homes of French people or visited them extensively, but I don’t think air conditioning is going to be something you routinely see in homes in France.
I have a few thoughts on the subject.
First, the need is not so great in typical Summers. This was a freak heat wave. I imagine most French would not operate their aircon more than a few days in the Summer. Unless they got to like it or the dehumidification aspect of it, in which case they might start using it all the time…and then they would learn why it’s really not so easy to reduce CO2 emissions and maintain the same standard of living at the same cost.
Second, we can’t ship our air conditioners over there since the voltage and frequency are wrong.
Third, (unsubsidized) electricity costs are a bit more in France than they are in the US. These same elderly pensioners that are stuck without fans are not going to be able to afford the electricity for the air conditioners.
Fourth, it’s just a cultural thing. Air conditioners are a “luxury item” or even an “extravagance”, often limited to businesses and newer, more affluent homes.
Fifth, I imagine they would be better served with some other measures. Perhaps opening up some of the hideous crowding and congestion of the packed tight streets of large cities would help. Creating “breeze corridors” in the city. Having windows that open and are larger, with cross-breezes (many live in apartments with only a single side exposed to the air - no chance of any cross breeze, and efficiency of air movement even with a direct-on flow is very poor. As opposed to a typical free-standing American home, which has windows on all four sides and can capture the breeze from any direction). Induced-draft ceiling ventilation and loft fans can greatly cool buildings. Perhaps setting aside a large room or lobby on the floor of of an apartment building that is air conditioned, paid for by a cost-sharing measure among the apartments? So a person can go down and sit out the hottest portion of the day? Another thing - although they are not that expensive in Europe, many older people do not use microwaves, instead relying on large, heat-producing ovens.
I don’t know what would be easier or better in the long run - distrubution of window air conditioners, or redesign and modification of dwellings.
But didn’t it used to be a huge problem that when the big holidays came up in August, all of Paris would just up and leave their dogs to run feral and/or die? I remember hearing that from my high school French teacher, many moons ago.
My High School French teacher, an actual native of Nice who emigrated to the US just a year or two prior to my meeting her, used to tell me how the “streets of Paris were so clean you could eat off of them - not like your filthy American streets.” (direct quote, no bullshit). And also how “A Frenchman would die before showing any rudeness or impoliteness to a stranger, and you can ask them for money or assistance and - and - they will give it to you!” And finally, “the Seine is such a beautiful river, and the water is so clean you can dip your cup in it and make tea”.
I think she was just trying to get us all killed. Needless to say, her depictions of France were so inaccurate I think she was actually Belgian. Or maybe a French-speaking Afghani.
Another one was “A French person would stab themselves in the heart before eating at a McDonalds. The only people in France who eat at McDonalds are filthy Americans (direct quote, no bullshit) and Germans.” Sometimes she would spend half an hour talking about the “Top 1000 things about you filthy Americans that disgust me and make me want to vomit.” Thankfully, we all basically treated it as an affectation, and it didn’t bother us. It didn’t prejudice me. I’ve found the French to be little different than people anywhere else, and that primarily it is the region (Big City versus suburbs versus rural) that makes the difference. Contrary to the lies shown on American TV, the vast majority of France is not Paris, no more than the vast majority of the US is New York. I fact, in all the countries I’ve been to that applies as well. But maybe I don’t know what I’m talking about.
And she was dead-honest serious. It was fun taking French for 4 years from a person who would not brake if you walked in front of her car.
Yes, but.
In France, do they use medical equipment to save old people when they code?
How much does that cost?
More than a portable AC?
Has anyone considered what it is like to overheat to death?
Personally, I favor whipping people who kill their dogs in cars. Cat-o-nine tails? Fine with me.
AC is no more a luxury item than water purification or sanitation. NEWS FLASH! You can turn them off when you don’t need them.
Oooo…we don’t want to get into a comparison of French health care versus the US. That would not be good.
Well, to put it frankly, the average standard of living in France relative to that in the US (from a personal appliance and energy cheapness standpoint) does not seem to be that close.
Their culture and standard of living is not ours. In some ways they are better, in others they are poorer. The specific ways and metrics are highly debateable.
One could also turn your argument to many other points - such as “has anyone in Ethiopia or the Sudan considered what it is like to starve to death?” Or “why did so many people die in the last major heat wave in Chicago”?
What I’m saying is, I imagine any person in France who was broiling hot, and could afford it, and thought it would be useful many times in the future and not once every 20 years or so when a freak heat wave occurs, would gladly get an A/C.
No, seriously, in the recent heat wave…
Where did the people die?
Were they in hospitals or retirement homes?
Were they under medical supervision?
If so, why would AC be considered extreme measures?
I don’t think that making light of this situation is what I’m doing at all. I live where the heat can kill you if you are not careful. Yet, people for the most part do not die in droves. Note, the population of Florida is heavily elderly biased.
I do not accept any cultural difference which can afford to not bake old people, but chooses to do so.
Standard of living in France?
Stop testing nuclear weapons.
Forget building nuclear carriers.
That was so easy. I’ve heard those at least a million times.
That should buy at least a few ACs for the poor baking elderly in the hospitals. If, in fact, there were old people dying in hospitals, as I still am wondering.
I do not believe that they necessarily died because the hospitals were unairconditioned per se. I believe they died in the hospitals after succumbing to heat stroke in their apartments and homes. I think the key problems cited with the hospitals were “lack of training and experience with heat stroke, coupled with understaffing due to too many emergency personnel being on holiday”.
Plus, retrofitting air conditioning to a hospital that relies on steam or hot water radiators for heat (thus, no forced air ducting) is not cheap. And a hospital can’t just use any old business aircon, there are standards for ducting and cleanliness to prevent things like legionella. And you can’t put window units here and there in a hospital and hope to have a good control of airborne pathogens. We’re talking millions per hospital, perhaps ten plus million when you include the relocation and construction timing issues. For something that might not happen again. My contention is that they may have better ways to deal with it and spend the money.
Their month-long holiday needs some serious examination, if it really and truly leaves hospitals and emergency crews that understaffed. I find it odd that the same people I work with in France, Spain, and the Netherlands who vanish without a trace for 3-4 weeks every year become absolutely enraged at us taking two days + some vacation to take a week off for Thanksgiving. Apparently, the last weeks in November are a time when many in my industry are working hard to take off YET ANOTHER lengthy vacation over Christmas. And we Americans are just slackers for having a week off (according to the people I deal with). 
And when I tell them I take my laptop with me ON VACATION because I feel it would be irresponsible for a person to go on vacation and not take care of their clients in an emergency, they call me “stupid”. Not “dedicated”, not “hard working”, not “productive”, but “stupid”. How’d that happen?
“Retirement home” in France does not mean quite the same thing as it does in the US. Retirement homes are not so medical equipment-laden nor as upscale.
I read in the Montreal Gazette that the heat wave in France claimed 15,000 people. :eek:
That is way more than what’s been cited for Italy, the Netherlands and Portugal combined. I’m gonna go see if I can find another cite for that.
Beagle,
Comparing the weather in Fla (Southern?) to that of Paris is comparing oranges to grapes. Fact is ACs are really not necessary for the average Parisian summer which has a mean temperature of 67 degrees. In that context, it should once again be noted that this was a freak heatwave which caused deaths all over Europe.
But if you and others feel this is a great excuse to “get back” at the French…ce’est la vie.
I rather have a chilled salad with French dressing and croutons – it’s hot here.
Just to take this down a notch in case my bolding makes me seem, ah, bowed up or something.
I concede, up front, I don’t know that much about AC in Europe except that when I was in Austria and other parts of Europe in the Summers of 1987 and 1988 there wasn’t much in private homes.
That was when accidentally crossing into Czech territory could be a somewhat scary experience. Tanks have headlights, didja know that?
Anyway, It hit about 97 F in Vienna for a few days. Sniff I got a bit homesick. I missed the humidity though. :dubious:
I always assumed that the retirement homes and such would have enough AC to stave off freak heat waves. It’s not a huge capital investment. I am sarcastic, but it is almost always to make a point. I try not to be a major asshole. With those qualifications…
Serious as a heart attack (pun accidental but useful), there need to be portable ACs in Europe, at least.
Before any heads roll, make that step one.
By the way, average temperatures tell you nothing about the highs and lows that kill people.
Read the Andromeda Strain.