# Pitting the "Living with a hole in your throat" anti-smoking ads. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 1, 2012, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-living-with-a-hole-in-your-throat-anti-smoking-ads/620528 "2012-05-01T17:04:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-living-with-a-hole-in-your-throat-anti-smoking-ads/620528/21 "2012-05-02T08:22:28Z")
> [@Makeitstop](#): > > But that doesn’t make me any less mad that I have to be subjected to this kind of graphic material. You do know that this “graphic material” is a living, breathing (through her throat) human being, right? These are people, this is how they get ready in the morning…sorry you’re offended by someone else’s medical condition, but you don’t really have any sort of right not to be subjected to reality. All the naughty bits are covered, there’s no blood or blunt force trauma or infected sores or cancerous lungs on screen, just people. The same people who you may be “subjected to” on the street. The same people that sixth graders now may become in the future if they chose to smoke. > [@](#): > > And I can’t see the kinds of people that watch the channels I do being affected by these ads in the way the ad-makers want. So I would rather they stay off my television. You can’t see middle school aged boys watching ESPN? I’d have thought they’d watch a whole lot of ESPN. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-living-with-a-hole-in-your-throat-anti-smoking-ads/620528/22 "2012-05-02T08:38:12Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > While we’re at it, I want all those Coors ads on television, on billboards and in the magazines to go away! I don’t drink Coors, and i will never drink Coors, so why are they wasting millions of dollars on this advertising? Also, about all those ads for feminine hygiene products… Coors ads aren’t disturbing. You want a comparison, show actual dead bodies caused by drinking. But wait, I’ve never seen an ad go there.\ EDIT: And whynot, stop being such an asshole. You have no right to tell people not to be grossed out by things. These ads are shot specifically to make these people you pretend to care about look horrible. And you think that’s a good thing? You’re the one not thinking of them as people. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-living-with-a-hole-in-your-throat-anti-smoking-ads/620528/23 "2012-05-02T08:51:32Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > EDIT: And whynot, stop being such an asshole. You have no right to tell people not to be grossed out by things. These ads are shot specifically to make these people you pretend to care about look horrible. And you think that’s a good thing? You’re the one not thinking of them as people. Didn’t say he had no right to be grossed out. Of course he has a right to be grossed out. What he doesn’t have is a right to push all these people into invisibility \*because \*he’s grossed out. It’s right there in the OP that these tactics are effective, or were effective, for the OP. So what, his is the only generation of kids worth scaring into not smoking? Fuck the current generation, because trachs are too icky for ESPN, where ankles get broken and ACLs get torn and hockey players beat the shit out of each other on camera and we get to watch replays of it all afternoon? ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-living-with-a-hole-in-your-throat-anti-smoking-ads/620528/24 "2012-05-02T11:49:27Z")
Dahl (2003) conducted a study which presented three different forms of advertising containing the same message to a target audience. The control was “information” (neutrally presented more or less) and there were two experimental conditions (inducing fear and causing shock). The shock condition led to greater recognition and attention. There were no statistically significant differences in how much the audience liked or understood the adverts. A second study was also conducted where participants were observed while they were alone with three different adverts (same conditions) and they chose to pay attention to the shocking elements. There are ethical concerns which are brought up in the study: I’d be cynical if other companies started using these techniques of “norm violation” to force consumers to pay attention (there is some evidence that they already are), but I can provisionally say that they seem effective for health promotion. Arousal may be a confounding factor though, I think I recall a repeat measures study which looked at long term recall of health information (recall and adherence are the two desired outcomes after-all, not just immediate appreciation) when information was presented in high arousal conditions, but I can’t find it. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-living-with-a-hole-in-your-throat-anti-smoking-ads/620528/25 "2012-05-02T14:46:25Z")
> [@Makeitstop](#): > > I know this: Were I a smoker, my instinct to ‘dig in’ would probably activate were I to watch these ads. I would probably go “Bah, this only happens to people who smoke too much, or to often, or too long at one time. These are the STUPID smokers.” So even if I were a smoker, these ads wouldn’t do much good for me. One of my more powerful memories from residency is seeing an inpatient smoker with a probable laryngeal carcinoma (I did a needle aspiration of his tumor prior to laryngectomy to confirm the malignancy). That was a scared man, facing life with a hole in his throat (how long a life, hard to say). Had I any lingering temptation to start smoking, that would have killed it. I’m not sure how effective these commercials are, given the level of denial smokers and would-be smokers possess (and I have started muting the ads when they come on TV). I do applaud any effective means of cutting down on smoking, regardless of the income it costs me as a pathologist (I average several new cancer diagnoses per week that are likely tobacco-related). ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-living-with-a-hole-in-your-throat-anti-smoking-ads/620528/26 "2012-05-02T15:40:10Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Coors ads aren’t disturbing. You want a comparison, show actual dead bodies caused by drinking. But wait, I’ve never seen an ad go there.\ > > EDIT: And whynot, stop being such an asshole. You have no right to tell people not to be grossed out by things. These ads are shot specifically to make these people you pretend to care about look horrible. And you think that’s a good thing? You’re the one not thinking of them as people. Whoosh!!! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-living-with-a-hole-in-your-throat-anti-smoking-ads/620528/27 "2012-05-02T17:17:40Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Coors ads aren’t disturbing. You want a comparison, show actual dead bodies caused by drinking. But wait, I’ve never seen an ad go there.\ > > EDIT: And whynot, stop being such an asshole. You have no right to tell people not to be grossed out by things. These ads are shot specifically to make these people you pretend to care about look horrible. And you think that’s a good thing? You’re the one not thinking of them as people. Aren’t you the one always telling people they should have respect for others? So why are you defending the OP for calling the woman in the commercial “gross”? ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-living-with-a-hole-in-your-throat-anti-smoking-ads/620528/28 "2012-05-02T17:40:12Z")
Currently watching my mother-in-law die of advanced [Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001153/)(COPD) and I can assure you it’s better to have the people around you grossed out by something on TV and never start smoking than to have to nurse those same people through end stage COPD later. Here’s another angle. The choir is made up of faithful churchgoers, who presumably believe in most of the church’s theological positions. They still have to listen to the sermons week in and week out. You have made the decision not to smoke, and that’s great. But until media is perfectly tailored to each and every consumer, ads like this are what the choir has to put up with in order to have a chance of saving the sinner in the pews. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-living-with-a-hole-in-your-throat-anti-smoking-ads/620528/29 "2012-05-02T18:25:25Z")
I’ve seen pieces of two. I cannot help but wonder how smoking causes one to lose both legs, or be immobile. I obviously pay scant attention to any TV advertisement. I do hope if those two I described are really in that situation they were paid a lot of money to make the commercial. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-living-with-a-hole-in-your-throat-anti-smoking-ads/620528/30 "2012-05-02T19:19:05Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I’ve seen pieces of two. I cannot help but wonder how smoking causes one to lose both legs, or be immobile. The leg amputations are usually a consequence of cardiovascular disease, to which smoking is a contributing factor because it accelerates atherosclerosis (hardening of the arteries). If cardiovascular disease causes blockage of the vascular blood supply to the legs, the legs can become gangrenous and need to be amputated. (Untreated gangrene is almost always fatal AFAIK, besides being pretty damn horrific-looking.) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-living-with-a-hole-in-your-throat-anti-smoking-ads/620528/31 "2012-05-02T19:26:24Z")
Thanks, Kimstu. ---
**Author:** ![Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/4bbf92/32.png) [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heart_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-living-with-a-hole-in-your-throat-anti-smoking-ads/620528/32 "2012-05-02T19:42:50Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I’ve seen pieces of two. I cannot help but wonder how smoking causes one to lose both legs, or be immobile. > I obviously pay scant attention to any TV advertisement. > I do hope if those two I described are really in that situation they were paid a lot of money to make the commercial. Smoking also doubles the risk of a [stroke](http://www.stroke.org/site/PageServer?pagename=smoking). I believe one of the commercials shows a woman who’s immobile because of a stroke. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-living-with-a-hole-in-your-throat-anti-smoking-ads/620528/33 "2012-05-02T19:54:19Z")
This is a tangential rant, and a pet peeve of mine, that I’ve shared before but this is an appropriate place to share it again. When my wife (a long-time smoker, who had quit a few years prior) was in the hospital with lung cancer, she was watching TV. It was Susan G Komen time, and there was a barrage of ads for empowered women bravely and cheerily joining in solidarity in the fight against breast cancer. And then there was the barrage of anti-tobacco scare ads (funded largely by cigarette tax money), showing piles of corpses and skeletons and Grim Reapers and hole-in-throats. My wife said “I wish I had one of those cute pink cancers”. We as a society have decided that we can best fight breast cancer by raising funds for research; and that we can best fight lung cancer by preventing smoking. This may be statistically accurate, but it also says to people who have lung cancer “sucks to be you”. Lung cancer death rates have not budged in 40 years. (And I believe the unspoken second half of that societal agreement is “and lung cancer victims have only themselves to blame”. Which is really unfortunate if you’re one of the thousands of non-smokers who gets lung cancer.) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-living-with-a-hole-in-your-throat-anti-smoking-ads/620528/34 "2012-05-02T20:33:00Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Lung cancer death rates have not budged in 40 years. According to [this report](http://abcnews.go.com/Health/cancer-death-rates-continue-decline/story?id=16023263#.T6GYnO2JCnw), that isn’t true. The decline in cancer death rates from 1999 to 2008 applied to each of the four most common types of cancer (including lung cancer), as well as to the average death rate overall. Moreover, the incidence of new lung cancer cases also declined during the same period. Yes, it’s still true that the best way to fight lung cancer large-scale is to reduce smoking, but that doesn’t mean that nobody’s trying to make things better for people once they actually **get** lung cancer. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-living-with-a-hole-in-your-throat-anti-smoking-ads/620528/35 "2012-05-02T20:39:16Z")
Assuming (a big assumption) that cancer death rate = deaths from cancer / population, then the drop in lung cancer death rate can largely be attributed to a drop in the number of smokers. A more pertinent statistic would be the chances of survival, and I think that’s the number that hasn’t budged in 40 years – we haven’t come up with an effective lung cancer treatment. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-living-with-a-hole-in-your-throat-anti-smoking-ads/620528/36 "2012-05-02T20:41:43Z")
Girlfriend with a stoma, I know know, it’s serious ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-living-with-a-hole-in-your-throat-anti-smoking-ads/620528/37 "2012-05-02T20:48:41Z")
The stat I had in mind, from the director of a lung cancer-related foundation: > [@](#): > > “Essentially, we want to make a change in the way Lung Cancer is viewed in society and treated in medicine. While other cancers have benefitted from modern science and research and exceeded survival rates of 95%, the survival rate for Lung Cancer hasn’t budged from 15.5% in 40 years. That is unacceptable to us and that’s something we have to change” says Jill’s Legacy Executive Committee member, Kristina Renda. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-living-with-a-hole-in-your-throat-anti-smoking-ads/620528/38 "2012-05-02T21:05:49Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Girlfriend with a stoma, I know know, it’s serious Ludovic, la, Ludivic, la, Ludivic strikes again. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-living-with-a-hole-in-your-throat-anti-smoking-ads/620528/39 "2012-05-02T21:08:22Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > We as a society have decided that we can best fight breast cancer by raising funds for research; and that we can best fight lung cancer by preventing smoking. Some of this is because we’ve discovered that 85% of cases of lung cancer (in women, a higher percentage in men) are caused by smoking. If we found a single thing that caused 85% of breast cancer cases, and that thing turned out to be a behavior that people could abstain from and still live a fulfilling life, you’d see more emphasis on preventing it. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-living-with-a-hole-in-your-throat-anti-smoking-ads/620528/40 "2012-05-02T21:14:35Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > Some of this is because we’ve discovered that 85% of cases of lung cancer (in women, a higher percentage in men) are caused by smoking. If we found a single thing that caused 85% of breast cancer cases, and that thing turned out to be a behavior that people could abstain from and still live a fulfilling life, you’d see more emphasis on preventing it. I heartily concur. But still, if you get lung cancer: sucks to be you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-living-with-a-hole-in-your-throat-anti-smoking-ads/620528.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-living-with-a-hole-in-your-throat-anti-smoking-ads/620528.md?page=3)