# Pitting the Republican Convention goes here **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 23, 2004, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-convention-goes-here/261082 "2004-08-23T13:10:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-convention-goes-here/261082/21 "2004-08-23T17:25:05Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > The protesters want Central Park, and they’ll probably get it. The other alternative is…I can’t remember the name but it sounded like they were getting a highway? Hopefully the road would be closed off to cars, or not. 😉 It is a highway, but not in Queens - also not anywhere close to the convention (not that Central Park is.) The Pubbies are already blaming the Democrats for anything that happens. I also read that one of them said the protests were wrong since they didn’t respect a sitting president. Aww. My heart breaks. What a bunch of pussies - they can’t take any criticism, and instead of defending their record, go whining that it’s not fair. :wally ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-convention-goes-here/261082/22 "2004-08-23T17:25:17Z")
**SimonX** , have to agree there. One of the protesters was quoted as saying, “We already have a permit. It is called the American Constitution. The idea that I have to ask for permission to protest my own Government is ridiculous.” **Mehitabel** , The damage to the grass is what the city is concerned about. The bathroom thing could be handled with about 1,500 porta-potties. Whatever happens, the whole city is going to be Effed up for a while. It doesn’t really matter where these guys protest. They could gather on the moon and get the same coverage/attention. If their goal is to directly influence the goings on inside the convention, then they need to be kept away. However, I thing most of the disturbances will be minor and isolated. Tons of small indescrete protesting is better than one riotous mob-scene. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-convention-goes-here/261082/23 "2004-08-23T17:26:09Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Save money _by_ reducing the war on drugs. It’s a huge parasitic drain on the economy. Is what I meant. The prisons, everything. Instead they’re reducing the war on Alzheimer’s. That’s close. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-convention-goes-here/261082/24 "2004-08-23T17:26:14Z")
**Uncommon** , they’re not going to get Central Park, maybe the west side highway which is in bumblefuck land, but that defeats the purpose almost. > [@Mehitabel](#): > > Frankly, I’m scared about what the protestors might do to the subway and streets where many of my friends live, around and below the Park. Don’t worry, they’re going to be fine. All this riot bullshit is a boogyman conjured up so they have justification to do the gestapo thing. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-convention-goes-here/261082/25 "2004-08-23T17:27:44Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > If what they _really_ fear is a repeat of Chicago '68, then i suggest that the best step would be to have fewer police. They were ones who fucked everything up in Chicago. It was the attitude of the police, and of Daley, that caused the problem in Chicago. Not likely to happen in New York. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-convention-goes-here/261082/26 "2004-08-23T17:29:26Z")
It apparently still is up in the air where the protest will be allowed. The city says it’s afraid of newly planted grass being uprooted in Central Park. The Queens location was suggested by the city in earlier months, not sure how serious they were. I’m having trouble finding a cite for the latest decision, [during the Democratic Convention](http://www.boston.com/news/politics/conventions/articles/2004/06/06/activists_fight_to_protest_at_conventions/) the buzz was that Queens was the city’s choice. > [@](#): > > But New York officials have yet to say how close protesters can march to Madison Square Garden, where the Republicans will meet, and they have rejected a request to hold a major rally in Central Park. Police have suggested an alternative venue, Queens. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-convention-goes-here/261082/27 "2004-08-23T17:33:17Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > It is a highway, but not in Queens - also not anywhere close to the convention (not that Central Park is.) > > The Pubbies are already blaming the Democrats for anything that happens. I also read that one of them said the protests were wrong since they didn’t respect a sitting president. Aww. My heart breaks. What a bunch of pussies - they can’t take any criticism, and instead of defending their record, go whining that it’s not fair. :wally I’ll call your Pubbie whiner and raise you a Lefty complainer. The guys that complain about the FBI asking questions regarding violence that may occur at the convention are the same guys that would bubble over with criticism if it were allowed to occur. Let’s face it, if there is ANY violence the loosers will be the protesters (and Kerry). If the FBI can squelch any organized violence ahead of time that would be for the good of the entire event. They do NOT want to prevent them from protesting, just from doing it violently. PS, whoever said you shouldn’t protest a sitting Pres is an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-convention-goes-here/261082/28 "2004-08-23T18:06:10Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > **Uncommon** , they’re not going to get Central Park, maybe the west side highway which is in bumblefuck land, but that defeats the purpose almost. > Don’t worry, they’re going to be fine. All this riot bullshit is a boogyman conjured up so they have justification to do the gestapo thing. I heard they re-applied for the Central Park permit today. We’ll see. You’re right about the rioting. I hope they realize that violence can only harm their cause. I think the only gestapo action going on is this; the police claim to have leads on violent activities so they can scare would be rioters into NOT rioting, if that’s what they intended to do. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-convention-goes-here/261082/29 "2004-08-23T18:09:40Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > The city says it’s afraid of newly planted grass being uprooted in Central Park. > [@](#): > > District Judge William H. Pauley III. > … > Pauley also concurred with the city’s concern that the Saturday rally by at least 75,000 people – and another for 250,000 people on Sunday by United for Peace and Justice – could ruin **the Great Lawn, which was restored in 1997** at a cost of more than $18 million. [Judge Refuses to Allow Convention Protesters to Use Central Park](http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Convention-Protests.html?hp) If the turf is still too fragile to handle civilian traffic after **seven years** , the city needs to find itself some new groundskeepers. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-convention-goes-here/261082/30 "2004-08-23T18:55:49Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > I’ll start. Now, this isn’t finalized, this may change, but I heard something on the radio (CBS AM) this morning, that just made my blood boil. > > Our Fearless Leader doesn’t have the guts to stay in New York City. He’s not even going to spend a night here. He’s going to fly in on the last night of the convention, and then immediately afterwards go down to Pennsylvania to a rally. Son of a _bitch_. How cowardly can you get? This is a town where the mayor rides the subway. Where… ah, hell. I can’t get up a full head of steam, enough to fully describe how gutless this is. It could be worse. Tom DeLay proposed that cruise ships be brought in as accommodations for the delegates so they wouldn’t have to spend so much time in the city. New York Republicans were, of course, outraged about this plan and it was dropped. However, it does show that the attitude many Republicans have toward New York isn’t too far removed from [this parody.](http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0804/jewyorkguide.html) ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-convention-goes-here/261082/31 "2004-08-23T19:44:52Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > Tom DeLay proposed that cruise ships be brought in as accommodations for the delegates so they wouldn’t have to spend so much time in the city. And the whole point of all this bullshit is that it will generate money for the city. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-convention-goes-here/261082/32 "2004-08-23T19:51:07Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > He’s not even going to spend a night here. Why does he need to stick around? It’s not like he has to score his own blow. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-convention-goes-here/261082/33 "2004-08-24T02:05:58Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > I heard they re-applied for the Central Park permit today. We’ll see. > You’re right about the rioting. I hope they realize that violence can only harm their cause. I think the only gestapo action going on is this; the police claim to have leads on violent activities so they can scare would be rioters into NOT rioting, if that’s what they intended to do. The oldest trick in the book is for counter-protesters to pose as lefties and incite others to act up. The cops swoop in and bash heads, it all gets caught on camera. FOX and their kin show the tape on an endless loop, Mister & Misses Middle America get the heeby-jeebies. Our fearless leader blames his opponent and we get “4 more years!” Woohoo! Notice how the FBI never knocks on the doors of the right wing counter-protesters? Kinda funny, that. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-convention-goes-here/261082/34 "2004-08-24T02:21:48Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > [Judge Refuses to Allow Convention Protesters to Use Central Park](http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Convention-Protests.html?hp) > > If the turf is still too fragile to handle civilian traffic after **seven years** , the city needs to find itself some new groundskeepers. Did you ever see the Woodstock movies? Or any high school football field? You can jack anything up if you have enough people, and for $17 million seven years ago I can see why they are concerned. You know what the funny thing is, though? This whole permit thing. With half a million people (or even half that number) you can pretty much go where you want to, permit be damned. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-convention-goes-here/261082/35 "2004-08-24T04:40:55Z")
I’m not sure everybody in the thread knows how big and complex the Park is. It’s not just a big patch o’ grass between Fifth and Eighth Avenues. It’s hundreds of acres of reclaimed farms and shantytowns that were carefully planned and planted 150 years ago to hold, as 'twere, a mirror up to nature 😃 The paths and roads are winding, there’s thousands of carefully planted flowers. There’s brooks and fences and Victorian bridges and a huge reservoir and lake and a carousel and dog runs and dozens of statues and an outdoor theater and the delicate Turtle Pond right next to the Great Lawn. Here’s a good map [divided by sections](http://www.kelley-graphics.com/centralpark/lrgview.html) of the Park. Now, I don’t think that the protestors are going to stomp elephant-like around deliberately damaging the trees and scaring the egrets, but it’s quite a hike from the southern (and northern, although somehow I don’t think the protestors are going to be coming from Harlem) reaches of the place to the Lawn. Not to mention the entire park is right across the street from people’s houses; some of them might be rich, but the patients at Mount Sinai and Cardinal Cooke hospitals, as well as any poor suckers trying to get to the Met, the American Museum of Natural History, El Museo de Barrio, or the Museum of the City of NY, might not be too happy. OTOH, those same streets happily hold about a million people who watch the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade go down Central Park West every year, so maybe it’ll all work out. ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-convention-goes-here/261082/36 "2004-08-24T13:44:25Z")
While that’s true Mehitabel, the city’s entire argument is that they spent $18 million on the grass a few years ago and don’t want to ruin it. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-convention-goes-here/261082/37 "2004-08-24T14:05:02Z")
Anybody know the attendance numbers for the [Dave Matthews Band free concert in Central Park back on 9/24/03](http://www.dmband.com/news/nyc03.asp) and why that didn’t ruin the lawn? (Or is it just that there was a sponsor who was willing to clean up afterwards?) ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-convention-goes-here/261082/38 "2004-08-24T14:33:06Z")
According to the Newark Star-Ledger, that was about 85,000 people. And yes, bonds were posted and the park was cleaned up afterwards by the sponsor (AOL, as part of its concerts to raise money for schools). ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-convention-goes-here/261082/39 "2004-08-24T14:41:25Z")
It does look like they’ve held some large events [on the great lawn](http://www.nyc.gov/html/rwg/html/97/garthair.html) (A thousand pardons if that’s not the great lawn. The water is obviously the reservior, and there doesn’t look to be a grassy oval _north_ of the reservior. ([Map of central park)](http://www.centralparknyc.org/virtualpark) ) ---
**Author:** ![5que](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/3bc359/32.png) [@5que](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5que)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-convention-goes-here/261082/40 "2004-08-24T19:15:42Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > I’m not sure everybody in the thread knows how big and complex the Park is. Oh, come on, Tommy Lee Jones held the [whole Park hostage](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091724/) all by himself! Okay, he did use a motorcycle… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-convention-goes-here/261082.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-convention-goes-here/261082.md?page=3)