# Pitting The Republican for no reason whatsoever **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 18, 2003, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-for-no-reason-whatsoever/195920 "2003-08-18T06:36:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-for-no-reason-whatsoever/195920/121 "2003-08-20T04:11:38Z")
Hentor you ingorant fool. I went through the first four of the issues and categorized them as basic boilerplate. This is why you’re such a putz. An intelligent and observant individual would take issue with my characterization. He would have a tough time because these things are pretty boilerplate, and he would have a hard time ignoring the fact that they are not front and center and not the center of his speeches. They are not his “message.” They are not his central theme. They are not his mission statement. Instead, you have cluelessly suggested that I overlooked it. I gave you guys Bush’s mission statement. His “message.” I didn’t make you go looking for it. Do the same… “John Kerry stands for \_\_\_\_ \_\_\_\_ and \_\_\_\_\_ and is going to do \_\_\_\_ \_\_\_\_ and \_\_\_\_ to address it.” Then of course, show me that this is theme. I can’t find it. Instead of telling me where I should look, show me. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-for-no-reason-whatsoever/195920/122 "2003-08-20T04:14:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IzzyR \* > 2) In response to the statement by Polycarp that he considered Sam Stone a poster who slanted and misrepresented others’ positions and was inclined to ignore all his posts from now on, all because he had dared agree with Ann Coulter about something, Scylla suggested… JFTR, while we’re talking about misrepresentation, **Izzy** , I said that conservative posters who argued fairly and did not slant were rare, or words to that effect, and that I had considered **Sam Stone** one of the above, the rare fair-minded conservative. I then went on to indicate why his statement of overall agreement with la Coulter irked me so greatly. My post is above in this thread. Check it to verify what I’m saying. Then I’d like a retraction. (In fact the rules of the board would suggest you are obliged to give me one – but that’s not a game I care to play with you. I think I can trust to your probity to doublecheck me and then do the right thing.) **Scylla** , I’ve been giving serious thought to your courteous post. Two quick comments: Ann Coulter may well tell the truth from time to time. I have no interest in wading through her bile to find the occasional nugget, when more objective sources are available. In reliance on your word, which I’ve always known to be good, I’ll retract my allusion to Rush – seven years ago or so is when I last listened to him, and I found him repellently slanted and unfactual at that time. If he’s indeed cleaned up his act, good for him. I applauded his calling out of Falwell and Robertson for their vileness in late Septembr 2001. I want to think about some of the rest of what you say, and answer fairly and fully. And I should have named you along with **Sam Stone** as thoughtful non-doctrinaire conservatives who will debate fairly. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-for-no-reason-whatsoever/195920/123 "2003-08-20T04:28:28Z")
Now Lieberman has a fairly decent site, and it looks like there’s some stuff we can put together. I actually think Lieberman is pretty cool, and has said some pretty decent things. He was the one that highlighted for me the lack of direction and negativity that has captured his party. Here: [http://www.joe2004.com/site/PageServer?pagename=ii\_joesagenda](http://www.joe2004.com/site/PageServer?pagename=ii_joesagenda) He lays out his basic agenda. Bam. Bam. Bam. I’m going to do this, this and this, because these are what I stand for. Unfortunately, he also puts the Bush sucks theme front and center on his website and in his speeches as a central theme. It doesn’t however seem to be what he stands for. At least when he does it, he tries to do it to gain something (in this case, the Green vote.) ---
**Author:** ![Dumbguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dumbguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dumbguy)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-for-no-reason-whatsoever/195920/124 "2003-08-20T04:44:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Grim\_Beaker \* > \*\*I believe **IzzyR** is making a good faith effort here at communicating his views in a reasonable manner. I don’t believe sarcasm and ridicule is warranted nor helpful. \*\* I wasn’t trying to be helpful, and I don’t much care if you feel my post was warranted. **Izzy’s** suggestion that there are less conservatives on the board because they have more important things to do didn’t strike me as a good faith argument. It struck me as insulting and trite, so I responded in kind. Who the hell made you hall monitor anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-for-no-reason-whatsoever/195920/125 "2003-08-20T05:02:18Z")
**Polycarp:** Thanks for the nice words. I went back and read the message in question, and you seemed to be asking me to explain myself because of my agreement with Ann Coulter. Thing is, I can’t remember agreeing with her on anything. I suppose it’s possible - even a broken clock is right twice a day. Maybe I’d agree with a bunch of specific things she says - I don’t know, because I’ve never read a word she wrote. I’ve seen her on lots of ‘pundit’ shows, and she bugs me. Rest assured, I have no affinity for her. I think she’s a shrill woman who has a genius for pushing the buttons of both her opponents and her followers. That gets her tons of publicity and humongous book sales, but by and large I think she’s a boil on the body politic. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-for-no-reason-whatsoever/195920/126 "2003-08-20T06:40:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\* Well, maybe a little. Maybe I’m also getting tired of the continual attacks on **December** every time he says anything, while people like **elucidator** and **Reeder** can do the exact same thing on the left with impugnity, and even extremists like **Rashak Mani** and complete drooling idiots like **Roger\_Mexico** seem to get a pass, because they’re anti-Bush. > > \*\* Is this willfull ignorance or out and out lies? **Reeder** gets a pass while we hound poor **december**? Did you actually write that? **Reeder** gets grilled EVERYTIME he opens a thread! Rightfully so, I grant you. But to say he can post “with impugnity” is dishonest. He’s been pitted multiple times (not as many as **december** , but he hasn’t been at it as long) and even far-left liberals are rolling their eyes at him. And from what I’ve seen of **Rashak Mani** , I expect he’ll be slammed repeatedly as well. I’m getting a little tired of this “our side is so put upon while _their_ side gets all the breaks” line. (Not to say that both sides don’t use the line, I’m just tired of it because it’s just not true) ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-for-no-reason-whatsoever/195920/127 "2003-08-20T06:48:01Z")
Well, I’ll admit that Reeder has come under a little more scrutiny lately. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-for-no-reason-whatsoever/195920/128 "2003-08-20T08:14:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\* Maybe I’m also getting tired of the continual attacks on **December** every time he says anything, while people like **elucidator** and **Reeder** can do the exact same thing on the left with impugnity, and even extremists like **Rashak Mani** and complete drooling idiots like **Roger\_Mexico** seem to get a pass, because they’re anti-Bush. > > And then The Republican comes along and gets absolutely hammered by you guys, for little more than some confusion about board etiquette. > \*\* Sigh… Sam, my friend. POV is everything, and I respect you enough to know that you \* know \*this, the grumbling in your tummy is just distracting you. Cuz from where I’m sitting, there is a whole world of difference between december and elucidator that has absolutely zero to do with their politics and everything to do with their respective styles. I can’t remember the last time december started or participated in a conversation without being a) inflammatory as hell, in the most polite way possible and b) deadly earnest. With the exception of his umm…err…ahh…“cute”? Yeah, that’s it…his “cute” little limericks, the guy seems utterly humorless. My darling \*\* Boris, \*\* on the other hand…well, he is nothing, if not entertaining. Only the crabbiest of souls could deny that. And it’s probably unfair, but it really does count. We aint’ here to change the world, much as we like to make noises to the contrary. As for \*\* Reeder, \*\* well, frankly I wasn’t even aware of him until recently, when I began to notice all the bitching and complaining. With some relief, I might add, since I was noticing that the name “reeder” was appearing in places where I might otherwise predict “stoid” to be…the usual knee jerk “liberals are hysterical” type blanket remarks that are made pretty much daily around here, (which I notice and you may not, due to our differing points of view. Ahem) So, back to our new pal, TR… and after three pages, you are still maintaining that the \* only \*error he made was purely etiquette? Come now, Sam…I think you need to excuse yourself and go top off your tank, come back when you are well fed and thinking clearly. We’ll wait. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-for-no-reason-whatsoever/195920/129 "2003-08-20T09:40:25Z")
**TR** has still not provided any evidence of his claim that Nelson Mandella is a [rapist and murderer.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=205246) > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Republican \* > \*\*Mandela? So you would enjoy having a murderer/rapist as your commander-in-chief during this time of crisis? Or any time for that matter? \*\* He simply claims it’s 'basic history 101, then can only provide a cite about a _different_ Mandella. I pressed him for a cite. he said > [@](#): > > Would you call it bad form if I claimed that the invasion of Poland in 1939 started WW2 yet did not have a citation for it? Even **december** and **Reeder** would have more…etiquette…than that. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-for-no-reason-whatsoever/195920/130 "2003-08-20T11:43:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > That sounds exactly like me. So why the hell do we never seem to agree on anything? Guns, unilateral foreign policy, the reprehensible lies of the president and his cronies, oil, taxes, public education, etc. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-for-no-reason-whatsoever/195920/131 "2003-08-20T11:44:56Z")
By which, I mean that the only things worth arguing about are then subjects where we disagree. Most stuff isn’t an issue at all, but the ones that remain are doozies. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-for-no-reason-whatsoever/195920/132 "2003-08-20T11:50:48Z")
**Sam** , I think you’ve coined a word. “Impugnity” should take its place in our own special SDMB dictionary, being defined as the peculiar ability to exhibit unwarranted pugnacity without developing a reputation for belligerance. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-for-no-reason-whatsoever/195920/133 "2003-08-20T11:58:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*Hentor you ingorant fool. I went through the first four of the issues and categorized them as basic boilerplate. You have no personal responsibility. You have zero integrity. You have no backbone. You feel no compunction whatsoever about saying one thing and then sidestepping or backpedalling, while at the same time claiming this is what you said all along. This is why you are such a little dick. You went through the Kerry website apparently reviewing posted speeches through your “Limbaugh is 98% correct” prism, throwing out little gems like “Hispanic, Hispanic, Hispanic” as your analysis of the website. Your original claim was that Kerry’s message is only that George Bush sucks, followed by Kerry is a veteran. I can have the stenographer read it back if you’d like. However, a 3 minute visit to the site indicated that this is entirely untrue. > [@](#): > > An intelligent and observant individual would take issue with my characterization. He would have a tough time because these things are pretty boilerplate, and he would have a hard time ignoring the fact that they are not front and center and not the center of his speeches. > > They are not his “message.” They are not his central theme. They are not his mission statement. You appear to confuse message with buzzwords. What are the four things that can be plunked into my Mad Libs rubric? Now you are crying because you feel you were misinterpreted. I guarantee you this: There is nothing anyone here can do to convince you that something Kerry says is not “boilerplate” while you aver that “strengthening the economy, protecting the homeland, and winning the war on terror. We will continue to earn the confidence of the American people by working to keep this nation prosperous, strong and secure” is a “hopeful and optimistic mission statement.” You are nothing more than a blindly partisan imbecile with an ISP, a rhetoric-laden dimwit. Here is your strategy. Come in screaming and throwing off more heat than light. Catch some shit from others, and then try a milder variant of the original shit. Then cry foul (“Oh woe is me. I have been so maligned.”) Then make some claim that your original screaming was part of a reasoned analysis (the characterization of which is now much more shaded based on the shit you got), and cry that others have no integrity because they won’t conform to some Scylla-defined paradigm. If you choose to not understand the Kerry website, that is your choice. But don’t blame him if you just don’t get it. It’s probably because it is 98% completely different from Rush Limbaugh. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-for-no-reason-whatsoever/195920/134 "2003-08-20T12:10:55Z")
**Hentor** , did **Scylla** pick on you as a child? I’m sorry, but I see no justification for your animosity. And since you have less than 400 posts, I can only assume that this is not part of a long-running battle (unless you used to post under a different name). How did this thing with him get so personal so fast? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-for-no-reason-whatsoever/195920/135 "2003-08-20T12:24:24Z")
Yeah, it is hard to understand, **Scylla** being such a loveable cuss, and all. Kind of like a tribble that bites. I suspect he spends some time listening to the utterly odious Michael Medved, as he seems to have been infected with MM’s rhetorical devices, to wit: MM will be talking generally about Kerry and then interject, apropos of nothing: “Oh, and did I mention that he’s a Viet Nam veteran?” Coy, cutesy, and adorable. (I get the feeling that any day that MM got to the school cafeteria with his lunch money intact was a very good day…) Well, yes, he is, he did in fact, “walk the walk”. as the saying of the time has it. While Commander Bunnypants was protecting the skies amove Amarillo from Viet Cong aircraft. That is, until he wandered off base for a beer and forgot how to get back. It makes a lovely comparative image, don’t you think? A doleful basset hound next to an empty flight suit. As to an election campaign made up entire of “I’m not Bush!” there’s a lot to be said for that. As by now you know, I regard GeeDubya as a mediocrity raised far above his abilities, saddled with the delusion that he is a Leader of Men. He is a danger to the Republic and to the world at large, and to see him dislodged from his wholly undeserved position, I would be willing to vote for _Lieberman!_ There. I’ve said it. May Eugene V. Debs forgive me! ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-for-no-reason-whatsoever/195920/136 "2003-08-20T13:32:52Z")
**Hentor** , you’re either having a really bad day, or you just are a total fucking asshole. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-for-no-reason-whatsoever/195920/137 "2003-08-20T13:44:05Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Polycarp_ > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by IzzyR_ > > 2) In response to the statement by Polycarp that he considered Sam Stone a poster who slanted and misrepresented others’ positions and was inclined to ignore all his posts from now on, all because he had dared agree with Ann Coulter about something, Scylla suggested… > > JFTR, while we’re talking about misrepresentation, Izzy, I said that conservative posters who argued fairly and did not slant were rare, or words to that effect, and that I had considered Sam Stone one of the above, the rare fair-minded conservative. I then went on to indicate why his statement of overall agreement with la Coulter irked me so greatly. > > My post is above in this thread. Check it to verify what I’m saying. Then I’d like a retraction. (In fact the rules of the board would suggest you are obliged to give me one – but that’s not a game I care to play with you. I think I can trust to your probity to doublecheck me and then do the right thing.) Sorry, but there is no misrepresentation here (other than yours). Here’s your quote (emphasis added): > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Polycarp_ > Sam Stone, I for one would welcome dialogue with an informed and courteous conservative who does not slant his statements of position to a have-you-quit-beating-your-wife-yet misrepresentation of the left. Bluntly, they have been in short supply. December, always courteous even when faced with hostility (as I regretfully have reason to know), does tend to slant and misrepresent. I **had** for a long time thought you an exception – the rara avis of my first sentence, **until your recent post voicing agreement with Ann Coulter.** > … > > **I’d intended merely to ignore any of your posts henceforth.** But the principle of giving fair hearing to people with views different from mine, which Ann is opposed to, and mby implication you are as well, demands of me that I give you opportunity to exculpate yourself. In sum, you said exactly what I attributed to you, and no retraction will be forthcoming. In fact, if, as you now indicate, you still consider Sam a “thoughtful non-doctrinaire conservatives who will debate fairly” you might want to make your own retraction, as you contradicted this earlier, as noted. I see that you’ve decided to underline the word “overall” (agreement with la Coulter), implying that Sam Stone had expressed agreement with **everything** that Coulter said (in contrast to my statement that he had agreed with her about “something”). But this was not in your original post, and is probably not a true statement in any event. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Dumbguy_ > Izzy’s suggestion that there are less conservatives on the board because they have more important things to do didn’t strike me as a good faith argument. It struck me as insulting and trite This is in your imagination - I suggested that possibly fewer conservatives were interested in boards of this sort. Whether their alternative pursuits are “more important” or not is your own judgement. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-for-no-reason-whatsoever/195920/138 "2003-08-20T13:45:37Z")
I have another way of illustrating the liberal leanings of the SDMB. Back in mid-March when the war was starting there was a thread in IMHO called [War with Iraq. A simple poll.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=170192&perpage=50&pagenumber=5). The question asked was “Should we go to war?” The final count was 78 Yes and 109 No. This was at a time when nearly 80% of the public was for the war. So, I think it’s safe to say that _on the war in Iraq_ the SDMB has a liberal tilt. Another way to do this somewhat scientifically would be to open a IMHO thread asking the exact same questions that are asked in popularity polls about GWBush. Then compare those results to his actual poll numbers. I am certain there would be a huge disconnect if this was done. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-for-no-reason-whatsoever/195920/139 "2003-08-20T13:48:07Z")
Winnie Mandela used to support necklacing. It depends on what your definition of “Mandela” is. There was some nasty fighting way back then between the RSA and _shimmer, shimmer_ – crap, someone help me out here. They had their acronyms and were supported by the Soviets and Cubans for a time. Anyway, **The Republican** ’s got ballz, as they say, those crazy kidz and their “z’s.” “The” Republican, on this board. A toast to someone who probably didn’t lurk enough. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-for-no-reason-whatsoever/195920/140 "2003-08-20T14:11:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hentor the Barbarian \* > You went through the Kerry website apparently reviewing posted speeches through your “Limbaugh is 98% correct” prism, throwing out little gems like “Hispanic, Hispanic, Hispanic” as your analysis of the website. Your original claim was that Kerry’s message is only that George Bush sucks, followed by Kerry is a veteran. I can have the stenographer read it back if you’d like. However, a 3 minute visit to the site indicated that this is entirely untrue. > > You appear to confuse message with buzzwords. What are the four things that can be plunked into my Mad Libs rubric? Now you are crying because you feel you were misinterpreted. I guarantee you this: There is nothing anyone here can do to convince you that something Kerry says is not “boilerplate” while you aver that “strengthening the economy, protecting the homeland, and winning the war on terror. We will continue to earn the confidence of the American people by working to keep this nation prosperous, strong and secure” is a “hopeful and optimistic mission statement.” Precisely. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-for-no-reason-whatsoever/195920.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-republican-for-no-reason-whatsoever/195920.md?page=8)