De nada - 'tis the Pit after all. But very gracious of you.
Regards,
Shodan
OP back in. Shodan and all, not out of line in any way. I have no issues with the sentiments expressed. I guess I know all that, but it still strikes me as an injustice.
I know this intersection where this happened very well. It’s less than a mile from my childhood home.
It’s a divided highway, two lanes in each direction. My BIL was traveling West, approaching an intersection with a street that heads North. So the EASTBOUND traffic utilizes a crossover to cross the WESTBOUND lanes to head NORTH.
An eastbound truck wanted to turn NORTH, and he did so crossing in front of my BIL. Based on the skid marks from my BIL’s bike, he has less than 40 feet of reaction time. The speedometer of my BIL’s bike was significantly damaged, and the needle was frozen in place at about 45mph. The state police estimated his speed at 55-60 before braking, so he had slowed to 45 at impact. Speed limit on the westbound lane is 60.
The intersection is usually treated as a quick-look-slow-down, but roll on through intersection. It actually has good visibility. I really don’t understand how the driver did not see a bike that was probably less than 100 feet away. I know it happens, but to me this is negligent behavior.
Regardless, I know there was no intent, no malice, etc. But it is striking to me that through his negligence (gross or otherwise) a life was taken, and the only consequences are a $30 fine.
Was the intersection controlled? By that I mean: was there a traffic light for the left turn the truck was making from the eastbound lane? Was there a dedicated turn lane from the eastbound side to go north?
As a general rule, a vehicle turning left must yield the right-of-way to oncoming traffic. So the truck’s being cited for failure to yield makes sense.
What was the time of day and the visibility?
Not a controlled intersection, no lights or signage, although there is a turn lane. Time of accident was about 11AM, clear day. No structures or foliage your blocking view.
In this view, the driver of the truck was coming from the NW on Highway 58, turning across the northwest bound lanes in order to move northeast on Route 614. My brother-in-law was moving in the same direction as the red car captured in the Google Maps view, He was probably at about that same exact point when the driver of the truck failed to see him.
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.6577447,-79.7076132,315m/data=!3m1!1e3
If there’s no stop sign on that 614, I’d take SERIOUS issue with the county/state highway folks. The absence of a stop sign on a road intersecting with a highway defies logic, and I’d consider THAT arguable criminal negligence. Worth pondering, by whomever to do research on the amount of accidents at that juncture.
If you say brother was probably where the red car is, that’s more than 200 feet away by my estimation given the distance legend/guide. The problem with motorcycles, among other things, is size + speed. Assuming he was going 60 mph when he saw the truck, it’s one-thousand-two-thousand and wham. Either the relative’d have to slow down and/or take evasive action (to the right) or the truck driver’d have to be quite reactive and slam on the gas.
I think some perspective is in order, though it’s naturally to delay that part of the process. Virtually all accidents are caused by negligence (a/k/a mistake) of one or more parties in a blink. Even if the driver of the truck doesn’t display as aggrieved and upset and traumatized by what occurred, trust me, (s)he’ll be affected for the rest of his/her life whether or not (s)he is conscious of it. That’s serious punishment in and of itself, but your BIL’s family is naturally free to seek $$$ compensation and presumably will. I don’t see a good argument that what occurred is criminally negligent.
My condolences on the situation.
People can often look straight at something and NOT see it, even if they should and 99 percent of the time they would, but this time they don’t.
Not only that, but everybody literally has a blind spot, where in that area of your vision you ain’t seeing nothing how hard you try. Which is why I always look twice in traffic, gives anything moving to move out of the blind spot (and my system more time to process the info).
Then you have all the other variables that make things more or less visible.
And even if you manage to not have any trouble with those pitfalls, your brain may not process the input properly and output the proper command. I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve thought do X, and still a moment later did Y instead.
IMO its a wonder there are not way more actual accident accidents.
Again. Condolences.
There is a stop sign for traffic entering from Route 614, but that’s not where the truck came from. He was originally traveling on 58E and then used the crossover to enter 614 heading northeast, so he crossed in front of my BIL who was heading northwest on 58W.
I referenced the red car as an approximate, he likely was closer, but no real way of knowing. Regardless, at 60MPH, it’s the difference between a few split seconds of reaction time. Nowhere near enough time/distance for evasive action by either vehicle. Once the truck entered the intersection, neither motorist could do anything about it.
The accident actually happened about two months ago. Only reason my anger bubbled back up now was the news that the driver paid his $30 fine by mail. Don’t know why, but that bothers me. And yes, the family is discussing options with a lawyer.
“There is a stop sign for traffic entering from Route 614, but that’s not where the truck came from. He was originally traveling on 58E and then used the crossover to enter 614 heading northeast, so he crossed in front of my BIL who was heading northwest on 58W.”
Ah, I see now (though I’m having a hard time seeing any indications of stops signs on 68).
I can see why someone would get angry again at the paying fine by mail, even if that’s the way most people pay traffic citations. Just about anything associated with the situation on the driver’s end would be aggravating, I’m sure. Maybe the family can pool resources and have a counselor come by … or even do it via Skype or the like/online. Those who prefer to read over interactng in person might be better served by some self-help information. People tend to muddle through these things without ever realizing there are some relatively uncomplicated tools to help process the awfulness of it all.
Actually, even when there are a few seconds, there are evasive maneuvers to be had; sometimes they work, and sometimes they don’t. (There was an accident in the area recently where the maneuverer (in a car) was almost successful in avoiding disaster but clipped the very tip of the back corner edge of a semi that’d been making a crazy u-turn across a highway-highway (not a two-lane byway).)
I understand the OP’s point of view exactly. When I was 19 my cousin and my boyfriend were both killed when an elderly driver made a left directly in front of them. They were doing the speed limit and following another bike. The driver stopped, allowed the first bike to pass and then made their turn.
They didn’t see the second bike. Skid marks were less than a foot long and they were both killed instantly. There were no charges laid but the driver did fail a re certification test and lost their license.
It was clearly not deliberate but it was also frustrating since it was also clear that driver should not have been driving.
Cars don’t see bikes well at all. Drivers are looking for a large boxy shape and particularly the more slender sport bikes just don’t register. No matter how defensively you drive, when a couple thousand lbs of metal blocks all of your routes there’s not a lot you can do. I love the feeling of riding a motorcycle and I rode once after the two funerals but I haven’t ever in the decades since then.
Accidents happen every day in cars by the thousands and inside one you’re protected by seatbelts, airbags and your own metal crumple zone. On a bike you’re harder to see and easier to kill. It doesn’t make the accident less an accident but it sure does make it a lot more tragic.
I wonder when someone will come up with an aftermarket airbag-like bubble device that’s practical for motorcycles … or make wearing airbag jacket devices mandatory. Seems like, out of any particular group of folks on the road, they could use this protection the most.
there is this: 蚌埠笨鲁电子科技有限公司
I think others have pointed out - more or less - there are civil and criminal cases $30, $300, $3,000 isn’t really going to make you feel any better - and will leave less money for any civil settlement.
Remember in criminal cases - it is against the STATE - to me this seem much more likely a wrong that should be handled in civil court.
As far as paying by mail - it is very easy in times like this to let these things bother you. Usually you can’t even help it - it is just a visceral reaction.
If I killed someone by accident - I think the guilt and grief would be unbearable. I’m not trying to compare it to yours, but I can’t imagine having the energy to go to court to pay a fine in person and have everyone else look at me knowing I killed someone.
People die every day in vehicle accidents - I’d wager to say that the majority of the drivers that kill the other person are just like the rest of us. Being a bad driver - doesn’t make you a bad person.
I am very sorry for your loss, but I really think there is a good chance that the legislature (who often has lawyers on them) - was doing this as a FAVOR to your family - not to the driver. If they bankrupted the guy with something more “fair” - what would be left?
Just my opinion.
I understand the frustration at a $30 fine: our speeding tickets cost more than triple that. And I’m pretty sure ours are pretty low.
If “a moment’s inattention” in the use of dangerous equipment has the potential for terrible consequences, there ought to be recognized an affirmative duty in its careful operation in the presence of others. Negligent driving ought to be understood as criminal whether there is a consequent accident or not, just like, say, the reckless handling of firearms in populated areas.
ETA: To be clear, I’m not speaking to the specific case of the thread here, about which I’d indeed need more information to judge. I am simply disagreeing, on moral and logical grounds, with the specific quoted position.
I think anyone who rides a motorcycle can attest to this. Avoiding accidents on a bike requires a kind of hyperawareness, not just of other cars, but of their drivers (which direction are they looking in? Are they on the phone? Texting?) I watch the angle of their front wheels carefully in hope of a split-second warning when an oblivious driver decides to suddenly swerve into my lane, which happens far too frequently. Just last Sunday I had to make an emergency maneuver around a woman who, after looking straight at me as I approached (at nowhere near high speed), decided to leisurely pull out and attempt a left turn directly into me.
Even hypervigilance and defensive driving sometimes aren’t enough, as unfortunately demonstrated by the OP’s loss.
I saw on the other board that the driver of the truck was 72. Is that correct?
Do you think the police ‘felt sorry for the old guy’ and let him off easy?
Is your family planning a civil suit?
As familiar as I am with the Virginia legal system, let me simply say that I have high confidence the driver of the vehicle knows someone or is related to someone in the Commonwealth’s Attorneys office. Or, they have a very good lawyer who is good friends etc etc…
My reason for believing this is that the CA and the state had an opportunity to make much more money off of this accident, and did not. The system here is run as a for-profit entity.
So if they didn’t go for the profit, that means influence of one sort or another. /shrug
Regards,
-Bouncer-
It doesn’t have to be the only consequence. Your BIL’s dependents or his estate can always sue.
Something I forgot to mention last night is that the traffic citation aside, two months may be too soon to know whether the state’s attorney will pursue any criminal charges. It’s not clear whether the OP has conferred with the relevant state’s attorney on the topic.
Naturally, the elements of the incident need to be observed to decide on what citation to issue. There may simply be no other appropriate traffic citation to issue (it isn’t as though they have in-truck video of the guy seeing the motorcyclist and deciding, like the other poster mentioned, to take the risk that their speed and distance assessment is correct and make the turn anyway*).
- That said, there is such a thing as seeing something and not really seeing it, i.e., “looking right at you but through you.”
Yep, 72 year old driving the pick-up. Other information has come to light that he is a personal acquittance of the County Sheriff. Not that the County Sheriff has any jurisdiction over this traffic accident, best I can gather the State Police are the sole responsible authority, but it still seems a little “convenient” to be chummy with another LEO. Apparently the day after the accident the county sheriff went to the home of the pick-up driver and “prayed with him” in his time of need. Hmmm, we must have been out when he came by our house.
Yes, legal options are being considered. The family has engaged a lawyer with a track record of dealing with cases involving motorcycle-vehicle accidents. But it seems that even then, it’s the at-fault driver’s insurance company who will suffer the financial hit, not the driver himself.
I don’t mean to come off as sounding like I want my pound of flesh from this guy, but I ride a motorcycle too. Dammit, i wear the safety gear, i have taken multiple riding and safety courses on how to be the best motorcyclist i can be, and I know I could still be splatted tomorrow by someone else being negligent.
Isn’t part of lour justice system supposed to be about punishing offenders to set an example for others? Kind of a “see what happened to this guy? You don’t want this to happen to you, right?” Here’s a driver who took the life of a fellow human being, and in the big picture, is getting off relatively unscathed, other than his own feelings of guilt. I think that society as a whole needs to learn that its NOT OKAY to be casual and negligent when you get behind the wheel. You are in control of a deadly weapon, be responsible. If we need a scapegoat or a model to hold up, I know where there is a 72 year old guy with a person-shaped dent in his truck that I can nominate.