# Pitting the Zimmerman trial circus **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 13, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419 "2013-07-13T19:53:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/181 "2013-07-14T14:11:36Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I am standing right here! I thought he was talking about me. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/182 "2013-07-14T14:13:33Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Calling black people “feral proto-humans” isn’t good enough to trigger your hate speech alarms? He said, “A Florida jury has affirmed our right to use deadly force to defend ourselves from feral proto-humans.” I don’t see where he labeled _all black people_ as “feral proto-humans.” Replace _feral proto-humans_ with _thugs_ and it sounds like something I would say. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/183 "2013-07-14T14:19:28Z")
Did I just hear Jesse Jackson correctly? Did he really say that Trayon didn’t get justice because there was an all white prosecution team, an all white defense team, and a jury panel with no blacks on it? Did he just say that Trayvon didn’t get justice because he did not have a _jury of his peers_? The victim gets a jury of his peers too? I never knew that. Does he really believe Zimmerman was found not guilty simply because Trayvon was black? ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/184 "2013-07-14T14:23:52Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > When you have twice fought for your life against the likes of Trayvon Martin and Rodney King… “The likes of”? What, were the four persons in question all left-handed? Have uncles living in Pennsylvania? Prefer boysenberry more than any ordinary jam? As per the board rules (and common decency), I am not wishing death upon you. I am just looking forward to your world-view disappearing from this earth to whatever degree that’s humanly possible, one natural death at a time. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/185 "2013-07-14T14:26:55Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Did I just hear Jesse Jackson correctly? Did he really say that Trayon didn’t get justice because there was an all white prosecution team, an all white defense team, and a jury panel with no blacks on it? Did he just say that Trayvon didn’t get justice because he did not have a _jury of his peers_? The victim gets a jury of his peers too? I never knew that. Does he really believe Zimmerman was found not guilty simply because Trayvon was black? If that’s true, I’m sad that Jackson would think that. It’s an understandable immediate reaction, but that frame of mind does nothing to help us all progress beyond the “Lonesome Polecat” way of seeing the world. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/186 "2013-07-14T14:28:00Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Calling black people “feral proto-humans” isn’t good enough to trigger your hate speech alarms? Hey, he was talking about boysenberry-jam lovers! Did you miss the post where he explained that that was the common link among his two assailants, Rodney King, and Trayvon Martin? ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/187 "2013-07-14T14:29:05Z")
Yes. So do I. ETA: referring to post # 183. Posts came in as I was composing. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/188 "2013-07-14T14:34:38Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > He said, “A Florida jury has affirmed our right to use deadly force to defend ourselves from feral proto-humans.” > > I don’t see where he labeled _all black people_ as “feral proto-humans.” Replace _feral proto-humans_ with _thugs_ and it sounds like something I would say. He worded it with the barest amount of wiggle room, as he usually does. But you and I know who he’s _really_ talking about, eh? Wouldn’t we be better off just getting rid of all of them? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/189 "2013-07-14T14:45:10Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > You’ve never lived around animals like Rodney King and Trayvon Martin. I have. Common denominator being these people are black? Or the common denominator being…you? Maybe you’re a dick and your mouth keeps getting you into trouble? I have lived in Miami, Dayton, Los Angeles and Long Beach, Ca …amongst these ‘animals’ as you call them. Been 48 years and still no incidents of violence with black people. Had a few with white boys…but that was just between us crackers I guess. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/190 "2013-07-14T14:55:18Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > He said, “A Florida jury has affirmed our right to use deadly force to defend ourselves from feral proto-humans.” > > I don’t see where he labeled _all black people_ as “feral proto-humans.” Replace _feral proto-humans_ with _thugs_ and it sounds like something I would say. Yes, _if you remove those words from the post_ and read them without context, you can make it seem as if he wasn’t talking about black people. If you put them back in the post and read the whole thing, he rather obviously was. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/191 "2013-07-14T15:08:16Z")
Jesus Christ on rollerskates, what a display. The Prosecution failed to make the case against George Zimmerman and he walks, under the Rule of Law. THAT’S IT. Absolutely NOTHING in the jury’s instruction or verdict was about Trayvon Martin being a “thug” – that’s what (one side of) the extrajudicial infotainment and social media circus was making it out to be. All the gloating about “thug” and “feral subhumans” and “their likes” just goes to show that **Der Trihs** is not completely off his rocker and yes, there ARE humans out there who are just filled with hatred and bloodlust and eager to see “their likes” put down violently. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/192 "2013-07-14T15:28:47Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Jesus Christ on rollerskates, what a display. > > The Prosecution failed to make the case against George Zimmerman and he walks, under the Rule of Law. > > THAT’S IT. > > Absolutely NOTHING in the jury’s instruction or verdict was about Trayvon Martin being a “thug” – that’s what (one side of) the extrajudicial infotainment and social media circus was making it out to be. Beyond that, the actions prior to the actual fight are incidental to the actual case- it wasn’t really material if Zimmerman followed him for blocks, made decisions based on race, and decided to confront him. None of that’s illegal. What ultimately mattered is what happened once that confrontation started. The prosecution had to prove that Zimmerman murdered Martin beyond a reasonable doubt at that point, regardless of what happened before or after. Let’s go a little further and say that Martin was pissed off that this annoying Hispanic guy had shadowed him, and had actually got out of his car to confront him, and therefore decided to beat his ass to get him off his back. Let’s also assume that he proceeded to actually beat Zimmerman’s ass soundly. It’s at that point when Zimmerman pulls his gun, and at that moment when he pulled the trigger that the case is ultimately concerned with- was he executing Martin, or did he actually fear for his life in the middle of a beat-down? The prosecution didn’t make their case well enough (i.e. beyond a reasonable doubt) that Zimmerman shot Martin in the capacity to qualify for Second Degree Murder or Manslaughter. Apparently there was enough doubt about why Zimmerman shot him to raise that reasonable doubt that he might have felt his life in danger. The case wasn’t about justice for Martin either; it was to prove or disprove Zimmerman’s guilt in murdering Martin, and according to the jury and the laws of the state of Florida, he didn’t murder him. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/193 "2013-07-14T15:36:56Z")
I’m interested in a couple specific aspects of the case and the aftermath … 1. The whistleblower who got fired for ratting out the prosecutorial misconduct 2. What it means to incite rioting I’d start a new thread except for the liklihood that Mods would close/combine them rather than actually Mod the people who break the rules. Can somebody point me to threads, pages of threads or specific posts? ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/194 "2013-07-14T15:39:17Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > He said, “A Florida jury has affirmed our right to use deadly force to defend ourselves from feral proto-humans.” > > I don’t see where he labeled _all black people_ as “feral proto-humans.” Replace _feral proto-humans_ with _thugs_ and it sounds like something I would say. Adjunct professor month continues! ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/195 "2013-07-14T15:41:07Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Beyond that, the actions prior to the actual fight are incidental to the actual case- it wasn’t really material if Zimmerman followed him for blocks, made decisions based on race, and decided to confront him. None of that’s illegal… True – Zimmerman’s pre-confrontation actions are mainly just STUPID and DANGEROUS. But they do speak somewhat to his frame of mind, and therefore to his intentions at the moment of confrontation – and that IS a part of the legal question. I did not follow the trial closely, but it seems to me the prosecution could have pushed this angle more (though they share the blame for this not happening with the judge, for not allowing certain things in court, and arguably with the jury, for not giving it enough consideration.) But just because something is legal doesn’t mean we shouldn’t, as a society, be actively working to prevent it from happening. We need to educate our friends, family, and neighbors, especially the ones who carry guns, to refrain from stupid, dangerous actions, legal and otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/196 "2013-07-14T15:45:20Z")
I think it would easier for people to accept an acquittal as a fair verdict if there weren’t so many bigots out there bending over backwards to portray the victim in the worst way possible. The degree to which Trayvon’s image has been demonized, dehumanized, and dragged through the mud is why this case will be the subject of conversation for years. It has nothing to do with the prosecution putting on a weak case. It has nothing to do with the SYG. And it has nothing to do with gun laws. It has to do with society’s racial attitudes. The same attitudes that have plagued this country from the beginning. This has been a major wakeup call for a lot of people who thought Obama’s election eradicated racism in this country. Let **Lonesome** reveal his racism, and let **John Mace** and **Crafter Mace** predictably come to his defense. We need to see these sentiments and rationalizations out in the open. A black kid ends up being put on trial for his own murder, and we’re told its because he’s a feral proto-human. And yet it’s black people who are scorned for pointing out the obvious. This case was racial. ---
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/197 "2013-07-14T15:46:41Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Ah, I see. White victims of black violence are of no importance, and so there must be no cries of “No justice, no peace,” when whites suffer racial violence by blacks. Thank you for making it clear that injustice against lower class whites is of no importance to enlightened, progressive intellectuals such as yourself. You’re hilarious, racist pig. Is this what passes for humor around the Meeting of the Sheets? If so, I bet you’re Grand Dumb Ass. And just in case you are too stupid to understand sarcasm, my point was that most sane, normal, non-bigoted people grasp that violence of any kind has to do with _individuals_ and not an entire group of people based on the color of their skin. But you know that, Paula Deen, you just want any excuse to unleash your prejudice. Scum sucking freak asshole. > [@Anduril](#): > > And then there’s the rational, disinterested voice that believes George Zimmerman is innocent and Trayvon Martin ultimately died of his own actions. Pity that none of them have shown up to this thread. > [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Common denominator being these people are black? Or the common denominator being…you? Maybe you’re a dick and your mouth keeps getting you into trouble? > > I have lived in Miami, Dayton, Los Angeles and Long Beach, Ca …amongst these ‘animals’ as you call them. Been 48 years and still no incidents of violence with black people. Had a few with white boys…but that was just between us crackers I guess. Exactly this, so thank you. I’ve lived in many a poor, urban area with a majority of the people being minorities and never once have I, or anyone I’ve known, had any problems whatsoever. Of course, this difference is not being raging fucktards to others, but maybe that’s just us. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/198 "2013-07-14T15:53:04Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > A black kid ends up being put on trial for his own murder, There was no murder. It was a justified, legal killing, of someone who, for whatever reason, went out of his way to attack the man who ended up killing him. Race is irrelevant here, as the court has found correctly. That, if the races were reversed, the court may well have found _incorrectly_ does not mean there is anything wrong here. Well, except for the fact that the trial happened in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/199 "2013-07-14T15:53:57Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > :rolleyes: > > I think you’re about to become even more lonesome. Good riddance to bad rubbish, I say. And long time coming, too. Fuck you up the ass with a pole stuck full of rusty nails, **lonesome**. I’ve been wanting to say that for years now but you haven’t given me the motivation to do so before. Thanks for stepping over that line. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/200 "2013-07-14T16:01:56Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Yes, _if you remove those words from the post_ and read them without context, you can make it seem as if he wasn’t talking about black people. If you put them back in the post and read the whole thing, he rather obviously was. I didn’t read it that way, and I was careful to read the entire post 3 times. To me, the pro to-human jab was directed at Martin specifically. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419.md?page=11)