# Pitting the Zimmerman trial circus **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 13, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419 "2013-07-13T19:53:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/381 "2013-07-15T16:05:54Z")
> [@G-SE](#): > > Wrong. Period. Full stop. > > This whole tragic circumstance is because of the decision by Trayvon Martin to assault George Zimmerman. Trayvon made the decision that made all of this happen. That’s why he deserved to be shot. In the heart. Trayvon Martin is dead because Trayvon made the wrong decision. > > It’s time for you to get over it and move the hell on. You don’t know this. Even if Trayvon threw the first punch (and we don’t even know this for sure), he may have been in reasonable fear for his life because a stranger (whom he may or may not have known was armed with a gun) was following him for no reason. He may have lashed out in a “fight or flight” response- he may have thought he’d get shot in the back if he ran. Unfortunately we’ll probably never know. I do think if you follow an unarmed person for no reason at night, and a fight breaks out, you are at least partially responsible for his death if you shoot him. I think the law in FL should be changed such that the killer would be convicted in such a circumstance. ---
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/382 "2013-07-15T16:06:00Z")
> [@G-SE](#): > > Huh? It doesn’t hurt my feelings one bit. I still have a huge smile on my face that Trayvon is dead and Zimmerman is free. > > It’s all of you Trayvon supporters that seem to have the hurt feelings. You have to be one of the most despicable fucks on the Dope. Why don’t you climb your racist ass up **Lonesome Polecat’s** and leave the conversation to the adults? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/383 "2013-07-15T16:08:26Z")
> [@Tequila\_Party](#): > > See, you are still wrong and still a moron. If Zimmerman didn’t think it was his god given right to follow kids around in hoodies, when he was told not to, brandishing his gun and acting like an authority on who was allowed to walk through _his_ fucking neighborhood, None of those things happened, you fucking moron. It’s his right given by the people of Florida (or rather, not taken away by them) to follow whomever the fuck he so desires. There’s no evidence he brandished his gun, and lots that he didn’t, and also no evidence that it was him specifically, rather than the owners of the _private gated community_ he lived in that decided who had the right to walk there. This was not a public place anyone had the right to walk through. Questioning strangers there is not just acceptable, but outright good practice. Facts. Try looking at them sometimes, instead of whatever nonsense you’re basing your opinion on. ---
**Author:** ![G-SE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f0a364/32.png) [@G-SE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G-SE)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/384 "2013-07-15T16:09:16Z")
> [@Tequila\_Party](#): > > See, you are still wrong and still a moron. If Zimmerman didn’t think it was his god given right to follow kids around in hoodies, when he was told not to, brandishing his gun and acting like an authority on who was allowed to walk through _his_ fucking neighborhood, then no one would’ve felt their life threatened or ended up shot. You should stop making things up, you continue to sound silly. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/385 "2013-07-15T16:10:04Z")
There is no proof of racism. He may simply be a total creep without any particular racial animosity. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/386 "2013-07-15T16:10:40Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Even if Trayvon threw the first punch (and we don’t even know this for sure), he may have been in reasonable fear for his life because a stranger (whom he may or may not have known was armed with a gun) was following him for no reason. Being followed is not reason for fear of imminent attack or harm. Whether the follower is armed or not. My cite is about 3000 posts in all these threads, by several different lawyers, policemen, 911 operators, and other people who would rather refer to the law than their own baseless imaginings when determining what people may or may not do in a particular circumstance. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/387 "2013-07-15T16:11:21Z")
> [@G-SE](#): > > Huh? It doesn’t hurt my feelings one bit. I still have a huge smile on my face that Trayvon is dead and Zimmerman is free. The very definition of hate speech. ---
**Author:** ![G-SE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f0a364/32.png) [@G-SE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G-SE)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/388 "2013-07-15T16:13:55Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > The very definition of hate speech. Yeah, in Cartooniverse. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/389 "2013-07-15T16:14:11Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > The very definition of hate speech. No, it isn’t, not even slightly. It’s being an utter cunt, and indefensible, but it’s nothing resembling hate speech. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/390 "2013-07-15T16:18:55Z")
> [@G-SE](#): > > Huh? It doesn’t hurt my feelings one bit. I still have a huge smile on my face that Trayvon is dead and Zimmerman is free. > > It’s all of you Trayvon supporters that seem to have the hurt feelings. Was I a Trayvon supporter? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/391 "2013-07-15T16:20:35Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > In Doper Land, we like to use objective devices to determine height. Like tape measures and scales. We don’t determine height by simply looking at how tall someone looks compared to others, based on a photo or video image. Because, like, that is a stupid and imprecise way of going about things. [And leads to situations like this.](http://www.theonion.com/articles/white-house-officials-confirm-malia-obama-now-seve,30033/) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/392 "2013-07-15T16:22:07Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > In Doper Land, we like to use objective devices to determine height. Like tape measures and scales. We don’t determine height by simply looking at how tall someone looks compared to others, based on a photo or video image. Because, like, that is a stupid and imprecise way of going about things. But when it comes to legal conclusions and factual statements about the law, Doper Land changes its tune rapidly. Right? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/393 "2013-07-15T16:22:21Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Being followed is not reason for fear of imminent attack or harm. Whether the follower is armed or not. My cite is about 3000 posts in all these threads, by several different lawyers, policemen, 911 operators, and other people who would rather refer to the law than their own baseless imaginings when determining what people may or may not do in a particular circumstance. Being followed at night, by an armed stranger, who may have been shouting things at you, might reasonably cause fear of imminent attack. There’s no way to know for sure if Zimmerman had been acting in such a way, but with no witnesses at the scene (except for the killer) I find it just as reasonable that Zimmerman was behaving in a threatening manner that would cause a rational person to fear for his life as Zimmerman was “sucker punched” for no reason. ---
**Author:** ![G-SE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f0a364/32.png) [@G-SE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G-SE)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/394 "2013-07-15T16:24:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Was I a Trayvon supporter? I’m not sure where I mentioned you… I didn’t say you had to be a Trayvon supporter to have hurt feelings. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/395 "2013-07-15T16:26:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Being followed at night, by an armed stranger, who may have been shouting things at you, might reasonably cause fear of imminent attack. There’s no way to know for sure if Zimmerman had been acting in such a way, but with no witnesses at the scene (except for the killer) I find it just as reasonable that Zimmerman was behaving in a threatening manner that would cause a rational person to fear for his life as Zimmerman was “sucker punched” for no reason. See, that’s Doper Land. We insist on accurate statements about Martin’s height. We rely on things like tape measures and scales. But we’re fine with “…who may have been shouting things at you…” That one’s just fine. Trayvon martin was 71 inches tall, because that’s what the evidence showed. And he was 158 pounds at his autopsy, because that’s what the evidence showed. The evidence did not show Zimmerman shouting things at Martin while following him. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/396 "2013-07-15T16:28:08Z")
> [@G-SE](#): > > I’m not sure where I mentioned you… > > I didn’t say you had to be a Trayvon supporter to have hurt feelings. You didn’t mention me. But since you’re at least suggesting that Martin supporters are the only ones who have reason to find your comments distasteful, I thought I’d clear that up. Trayvon Martin did not deserve to die. He died, yes, and it was a tragic circumstance, not a matter of “just desserts.” ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/397 "2013-07-15T16:29:10Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > [And leads to situations like this.](http://www.theonion.com/articles/white-house-officials-confirm-malia-obama-now-seve,30033/) I needed this in my life. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/398 "2013-07-15T16:29:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > See, that’s Doper Land. We insist on accurate statements about Martin’s height. We rely on things like tape measures and scales. But we’re fine with “…who may have been shouting things at you…” That one’s just fine. > > \ > > The evidence did not show Zimmerman shouting things at Martin while following him. I’m not making a legal argument. Of course this is just my opinion. I’m saying what I find reasonable. You might be totally right about Zimmerman- and the jury may have made the exactly correct legal decision. That has nothing to do with my opinion, or what I find reasonable. I’d love to hear your opinion on the likelihood that Zimmerman has any moral (not legal) culpability for Trayvon’s death. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/399 "2013-07-15T16:30:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Being followed at night, by an armed stranger, who may have been shouting things at you, might reasonably cause fear of imminent attack. There’s no way to know for sure if Zimmerman had been acting in such a way, but with no witnesses at the scene (except for the killer) I find it just as reasonable that Zimmerman was behaving in a threatening manner that would cause a rational person to fear for his life as Zimmerman was “sucker punched” for no reason. That may be the case. Ultimately, though, it doesn’t affect Zimmerman’s right to self defence. For that to change, you’d need to prove he was committing a felony when he caused reasonable fear in Martin, rather than acting legally. Don’t forget, though, Zimmerman was _not_ the only witness. Rachel Jeantal heard the confrontation prior to the fight, and said nothing that suggests Martin thought Zimmerman was threatening him with a gun, or shouting threats at him. That, for me, would mean that there’s more evidence that Martin did not have reason to fear imminent attack. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/400 "2013-07-15T16:31:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But when it comes to legal conclusions and factual statements about the law, Doper Land changes its tune rapidly. There are no factual statements about the law. That’s why we separate the two. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419.md?page=21)