# Pitting the Zimmerman trial circus **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 13, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419 "2013-07-13T19:53:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/581 "2013-07-17T17:23:53Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Please explain how the quoted statement can only be read to call all black people “feral proto-humans.” Thanking you for your clear and cogent analysis in advance. Rand, I was with you on this one at first. But upon re-reading it I do see how it is probably racist. I missed it on first read, but after using the “proto-humans” line he expresses hope that “Euro Americans” should buy guns. I thought he was just referring to Martin as subhuman on first read. But after **BrainGlutton** pointed the second line there out I re-read it. Hard to argue it isn’t racist. Take out the “Euro Americans” line and it can easily be interpreted not to be. That line is easy to miss if you’re just skimming through the post. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/582 "2013-07-17T17:24:26Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Please explain how the quoted statement can only be read to call all black people “feral proto-humans.” Thanking you for your clear and cogent analysis in advance. Wasn’t he referring specifically to Trayvon Martin? A simple yes or no would do. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/583 "2013-07-17T17:29:57Z")
I knew this was going to be a violent [reaction](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57593953/bay-area-musician-attacked-after-dedicating-song-to-trayvon-martin/)to the Zimmerman verdict. These damn people see everything in terms of race. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/584 "2013-07-17T17:33:37Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > He bashed someone’s head into the sidewalk. That’s a bit more than a “small crime” like graffiti. So defending yourself is a crime? How did Zimmerman get off then? Of course maybe Zimmerman didn’t seem to be the sort of person who would kill someone. He did kill someone, he’s just not the sort of person who would. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/585 "2013-07-17T17:40:48Z")
> [@IgnoranceIsMyExcuse](#): > > And most crimes are committed on Earth, so aliens would be justified in zapping our planet. I’m most curious about why you think the judicial system is “racist.” Are you serious? Because if you want to really, really truly understand it, it can’t be done in a forum like this. I strongly recommend you watch [The House that I Live In](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2125653/). Does an _outstanding_ job of explaining exactly how the system is racist. And classist. And fucking evil. 94% on Rotten Tomatoes. [Trailer](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0atL1HSwi8) Get an education that will, one hopes, piss you off and break your heart all at once. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/586 "2013-07-17T17:41:50Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > He bashed someone’s head into the sidewalk. That’s a bit more than a “small crime” like graffiti. No. Martin has no opportunity to answer this charge. It’s not fair to say he committed a crime without at least some insight into why he did what he did. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/587 "2013-07-17T17:41:54Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > I knew this was going to be a violent [reaction](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57593953/bay-area-musician-attacked-after-dedicating-song-to-trayvon-martin/)to the Zimmerman verdict. These damn people see everything in terms of race. Wow. That’s incredibly sad and disturbing. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/588 "2013-07-17T17:43:46Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > So defending yourself is a crime? No, attacking someone is. The amount of people who don’t know the difference between the two would be funny if it wasn’t so terrifying. Martin attacked Zimmerman. Zimmerman defended himself. In case that’s not a clear enough example, the woman in the article you cited attacked Lester Chambers. The people who used force on her were defending him. No matter how much provocation was involved. No matter how much Martin was upset or scared by Zimmerman following him, no matter how upset or angry that woman was by his dedication, they had no right to use force. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/589 "2013-07-17T17:44:45Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Nope. He did not. I don’t think you want to hang your hat on this one. He was referring to black people. Maybe not all black people but black people nonetheless. > [@Debaser](#): > > So, MLK is an offensive racist now too? You think MLK would think that Z was justified in killing this boy who was doing nothing before Z started stalking him? As far as we know, Treyvon might be the one who was acting in self defense against an armed Z, the state simply couldn’t prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Z wasn’t acting in self defense. Not guilty isn’t the same thing as innocent and it certainly isn’t the same thing as “the defendant’s version of the facts have been found to be true” > [@](#): > > He bashed someone’s head into the sidewalk. That’s a bit more than a “small crime” like graffiti. Not if it was self defense. Treyvon’s problem was that he was too young to carry a gun. BTW, if he was such a thug, why the fuck wasn’t he carrying a gun? They’re readily available at gun shows apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/590 "2013-07-17T17:50:48Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Not if it was self defense. Treyvon’s problem was that he was too young to carry a gun. BTW, if he was such a thug, why the fuck wasn’t he carrying a gun? They’re readily available at gun shows apparently. Not to persons under 21. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/591 "2013-07-17T17:53:24Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > I knew this was going to be a violent [reaction](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57593953/bay-area-musician-attacked-after-dedicating-song-to-trayvon-martin/)to the Zimmerman verdict. These damn people see everything in terms of race. The man was singing a song about peace. He should have expected someone would try to kick his ass. His 73 year old ass. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/592 "2013-07-17T17:59:01Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Wow. That’s incredibly sad and disturbing. Yep. Sad and disturbing. But [this](http://www.wlox.com/story/22846282/police-men-attack-jogger-in-retaliation-of-zimmerman-verdict) or [this](http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2013-07-15/news/bs-md-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-monday-20130715_1_trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-baltimore-police) is just par for the course. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/593 "2013-07-17T18:10:58Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Martin attacked Zimmerman. Zimmerman defended himself. And your evidence for that is? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/594 "2013-07-17T18:13:16Z")
> [@](#): > > …Yep. Sad and disturbing. But this or this is just par for the course. If **Stoid** has publicly announced her enthusiastic support for pointless violence, you could quote it. Short of that, you are making shit up. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/595 "2013-07-17T18:15:57Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yep. Sad and disturbing. But [this](http://www.wlox.com/story/22846282/police-men-attack-jogger-in-retaliation-of-zimmerman-verdict) or [this](http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2013-07-15/news/bs-md-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-monday-20130715_1_trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-baltimore-police) is just par for the course. It’s all fucked up. But I think the two incidents you pointed out were young man who wanted to act out and picked random strangers and used Martin to excuse their bad behavior. They were punks probably looking to fuck somebody up anyway. But a woman, apparently middle-aged, climbing up on stage to attack a 73-year-old man specifically because he was singing a song of peace dedicated to Martin? That’s different, And deeply disturbing and incredibly sad: no matter how angry you are for whatever reason (and what was her reason exactly?) Why would you choose to attack someone who’s singing of peace? That’s _ **extra** _ fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/596 "2013-07-17T18:17:41Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > If **Stoid** has publicly announced her enthusiastic support for pointless violence, you could quote it. Short of that, you are making shit up. Oh darlin’, nothing new… But I’m **always** happy to have you be my hero…_swoon_ ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/597 "2013-07-17T18:22:06Z")
[QUOTE=Steophan] . The amount of people [/QUOTE] Number:smack: Number:smack: Number of plural,amount of singular. Fewer of plural, less of singular. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/598 "2013-07-17T18:23:25Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Please explain how the quoted statement can only be read to call all black people “feral proto-humans.” Thanking you for your clear and cogent analysis in advance. No thanks, it’s not worth it. I know you can read the statement as well as I can, and are being deliberately disingenuous here. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/599 "2013-07-17T18:23:45Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > But a woman, apparently middle-aged, climbing up on stage to attack a 73-year-old man specifically because he was singing a song of peace dedicated to Martin? From what I have read, she was walking toward the stage before he started singing talking about Martin, and I didn’t see anything in the reporting that showed that her attack had anything to do with Martin or the “song of peace”. “You m—f----, you started this.” is hardly indicative of anything to do with Martin. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/600 "2013-07-17T18:26:06Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Treyvon’s problem was that he was too young to carry a gun. BTW, if he was such a thug, why the fuck wasn’t he carrying a gun? He apparently compensated by [carrying a _picture_ of a gun](http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/16/us-usa-florida-shooting-lawsuit-idUSBRE96F1EL20130716), at least according to a (former) employee of the Florida State Attorney’s office: _“Kruidbos testified last month in a pre-trial hearing that he found photos on Martin’s phone that included pictures of a pile of jewelry on a bed, underage nude females, marijuana plants and a hand holding a semi-automatic pistol.”_ (sings song of peace) “Kumbaya, we are all Trayvon Martin” 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419.md?page=31)