# Pitting the Zimmerman trial circus **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 13, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419 "2013-07-13T19:53:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![fudrucker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fudrucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fudrucker)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/681 "2013-07-18T07:04:40Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Yes, we think the problem is that Zimmerman defended himself, you fucking moron. Shouldn’t you be off commenting on YouTube videos? Ahh yes. Another civilized thoughtful response to my post. How brilliant of you. And so well thought out too. Is this another example of compassionate diversity by the left? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/682 "2013-07-18T07:16:53Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > [Wrong](http://www.fox16.com/news/local/story/Waller-found-not-guilty/dalJWO1BKk-HpcWLFtt1rg.cspx) No, I’m right. That man was not shot for following or approaching anyone, according to your cite. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/683 "2013-07-18T07:19:59Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I am so sick of this stupid fiction being tossed around. Witnesses confirm only the narrowest bits of his story, mostly that he was on the bottom, and not a whole lot more. And not even very much of that, since > [ul] > [li]no one actually watched what happened for more than a few moments, [/li][li]no one saw the moments directly prior to the shot, [/li][li]no one saw the shot, [/li][li]no one saw the moments immediately following the shot, [/li][li]no one saw the first blow,[/li][li]no one saw what happened between the T and the spot they were finally seen, [/li][li]no one saw Martin trying to smother him, [/li][li]no one saw Martin smashing his head into the ground, [/li][li]no one has even committed completely to seeing Martin punch him, just “arms up and down”, [/li][li]no one saw Zimmerman heading for his car[/li][li]No one saw Martin making it a point to confront him, [/li][li]no one saw the gun come out,[/li][li]no one except Jeantel heard any conversation between them[/li][li]no one saw Zimmerman doing the screaming[/li][li]no one saw or heard Martin tell Zimmerman he was going to die. [/li] > [/ul] So, outside of Zimmerman being seen on the bottom for a few seconds, exactly what parts of his story do you think are supported by witnesses? I don’t see anything, so please enlighten us. Or please stop flinging it around like it means something, because it doesn’t. So, what your saying is that, where the witnesses say anything about Zimmerman’s story, they support it? That’s what I’ve been saying. You’ve decided Zimmerman is lying despite the fact there’s no evidence he’s even wrong. That’s just silly. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/684 "2013-07-18T12:29:40Z")
Here’s a good New Yorker article on Trayvon Martin’s dilemma that night. > **[What Should Trayvon Martin Have Done?](https://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/what-should-trayvon-martin-have-done)** > > I still don’t understand what Trayvon Martin was supposed to do. I’ve asked before, and received many confident answers; since the moment George … The author has a quote from Juror B37–whose blabber mouth I simply adore because its stupidly allowing some ugly truths to come out–that highlights the insanity that historians will undoubtedly be writing about decades from now. In reference to Trayvon Martin, she said: > [@](#): > > Oh, I believe he played a huge role in his death. He could have, he could have— **when George confronted him** , he could have walked away and gone home. He didn’t have to do whatever he did and come back and be in a fight. (bolding mine) So let us get this straight. She believes that George confronted the kid, and yet she blames the kid for causing himself to be shot. And wait a minute. Didn’t GZ deny confronting the kid? So not only does this mean she excused the actions of someone whose key testimony she considers false, but she afforded credibility to this liar’s claims that the kid attacked him. Even though none of it was corroborated by anyone else. Why in holy hell would this juror assume that Trayvon, when approached by an unidentified armed stranger determined to keep him from “getting away”, have the means to simply walk away from the situation? Why would it not occur to her that if George was willing to get out of his truck to follow the kid, he was also willing to detain him until the cops arrived? And if the kid was detained, he would have been unable to walk away and his only defense would be to fight? Why did all the benefit of the doubt go to GZ and none of it go to the victim? As much as I think the prosecution botched their case at trial, I don’t think they could have gotten a conviction even if they’d been perfect. Not with jurors like this one. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/685 "2013-07-18T13:07:57Z")
I would have preferred that **LonsomePolecat** had not been banned. I believe what he said is what most of Zimmerman’s defenders on this board feel and the fact that he was stupid enough to explicitly say it was refreshing. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/686 "2013-07-18T13:14:20Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > As much as I think the prosecution botched their case at trial… Really? During the trial, I seem to remember your generally offering laudatory comments about how the prosecution was doing. Your analysis constantly highlighted defense problems and shortcomings. This was in contrast to my analysis and the vast weight of legal commentators in the media, all of whom thought the prosecution was getting its ass kicked. It’s certainly a surprise to hear that you actually thought the prosecution botched their case. Which of your posts below best highlights the prosecution’s botching you now describe? Or perhaps I’m cherry-picking – can you point me to other of your posts during the trial that capture that “botching” sense a bit better than these? > [@State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman Trial Thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/15): > > Yeah, I’m sure some of them are biased as all get out, and I wouldn’t put it past them to lapse into stupid when evaluating the evidence. But at this time, I’m not complaining. Zimmerman should be worried. > > The other thing worth pointing out (and I’m sure the Zimmerman supporters will disagree with this, but they stay in denial so that ain’t surprising) is that there is a big difference in interpersonal skills between BLDR and O’Mara/West. Anyone who has tuned into the trial so far can see this starkly. Not to stereotype too much, but with an all-female jury, the defense definitely has a reason to worry about this. Body language, tone, and overall demeanor all go into building trust, and trust goes hand in hand with belief. I think women are more attuned to non-verbal communication than men are, and the prosecution is winning in that area. > [@State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman Trial Thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/117): > > O’Mara badgered the witness but didn’t succeed in getting her to recant these claims. In addition, witnesses can sign all the petitions they want and still be credible. Exercising one’s 5th amendment rights doesn’t suddenly turn someone into a liar. The fact that O’Mara had to grasp at such a straw should be another clue to the jury that the defense’s case is a shaky as a house of cards. > [@State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman Trial Thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/278): > > The defense is trying to make a big deal out of minutia. West tried to nail Rachel on whether she _knew_ it was Martin’s voice who was screaming or whether she just thought it sounded like Martin. But, like, who the fuck cares? The defense just spent thousands of dollars arguing that it’s impossible to absolutely identify the yeller on the tape, so attempting to impeach Rachel on such a trivality is weak. They are boring the jury with this tactic, too. It’s easy to forget their experience is completely different than ours because they are forced to sit there and watch the lawyers perseverate on details that are of questionable relevance, while we watch entertaining snippets from the news. > > While the defense attacks inconsequential bullshit, what is obvious is that all the prosecution witnesses are corroborating each other stories. And most importantly, there are certain things NOT showing up in their testimoney as well. Zimmerman’s narrative is inconsistent with what the witnesses are claiming, and the defense is busily trying to mask that fact by trying to convince the jury that they are all liars. Problem is, even the witnesses who are semi-hostile to the state are not claiming the same things Zimmerman claimed. > > They don’t report any head slamming on the concrete. None have said they witnessed any extensive ground struggle or hearing “you gotta a problem, homie?”. They report hearing running and the sound of sneakers, which indicates there was a chase during the conflict. They don’t report hearing anyone say “tonight you’re gonna die mother fucker” or any threats. The sound of trampled grass is reported by multiple witnesses too. The grass thing is significant. Why would this be such a common theme among witnesses, if Zimmerman’s account was true? And most importantly, Zimmerman is consistently being identified as the person who was seen on top. Before and after the gun went off. No one has yet identified seeing Martin leaning on top of Zimmerman, smothering, or punching him. > > What’s fascinating is watching the defense, in its attempt to rattle and confuse the witnesses, only really succeed in driving home the prosecution’s key messages to the jury. “Zimmerman followed Martin first by truck then on foot” was today’s take home message, brought to you courtesy of West himself. Not only did he not dispute the idea of Zimmerman pursuing the kid at length, he kept emphasizing it, and he kept eliciting this from Rachel too. Forget about not knowing street names. The defense isn’t even using that to excuse Zimmerman’s behavior at the point. The jury knows he went after Martin in his truck and then got out to follow him. And worse (for the defense), it’s indisputable that Martin knew he was being followed and that he ran away. > > I have to wonder what the jury is thinking when witnesses are asked to relive what they saw and they break down in tears when they talk about the killing, and they see Martin’s parents crying too, and then the graphic pictures of Martin’s body and the 911 tape being played over and over again…and all the while, Zimmerman sits across from them completely expressionless. He doesn’t even have it in him to _pretend_ like he is emotionally present, and yet O’Mara and West are doing their best to make the room think he was the one yelling for help like that. > [@State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman Trial Thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/280): > > And about Rachel: she came across as unsophisticated and slow, but these same traits go to her credibility as well. If she’d had an agenda to make Trayvon look saintly, it would have made little sense for her to have attributed “creepy-ass cracker” to him. The reasons she lied about her age and about not attending the funeral are plausible as well, not to mention wholly irrelevant to what she heard that night. West had her on that stand for 5+ hours, which was overkill for what little she had to say. And even still, the basics of her testimony–the stuff that damns Zimmerman as the aggressor–were not successfully challenged by West. He had to put in a lot of work to make her look bad, and in the process, he got her to drill into the jury’s head that Zimmerman went after Martin. Not the other way around. > > When Rachel said she told Martin to run because Zimmerman could be a rapist, the ears of that all-female jury (with 5 out of 6 mothers) should have perked up. What better way to get this jury to see that Martin was the vulnerable victim than to remind them of how vulnerable a woman would be if they’d been in his shoes. > [@State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman Trial Thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/291): > > I disagree. Even though we’ve had their statements for a while, their live testimony is bringing out points that clearly contradict the line of bull Zimmerman has tried to feed the masses. The teacher has been the strongest eye witness so far, IMO. In the early days, people discounted what she said because of Serino’s underhandedness and her emotional state on the 911 call. But she turned in a devastating performance. The jury may discount Rachel and some of the other browner witnesses, but they’ll have a hard time ignoring her. ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/687 "2013-07-18T13:15:15Z")
Who gives a fuck – it’s just another fucking retarded US citizen of A getting killed by another dimwit citizen of the US of A – good thing it’s legal now that they can legally kill themselves. I guess it’s ok to kill them here as well now, since they are apparently ok with it at home – better none of you gun blazing bible thumping fuck heads walks towards me here on the street – I might have to put you down, since you might ask me a question like: “Do you have AOL here?” and I feel my life, as I know it, is threatened. I’d say, give everyone in the USA a gun – this whole USA situation will sort itself out – shortly. Team America – Fuck Yeah! USA! USA! USA! P.S.: Yes, we do have [AOL.com](http://AOL.com) here aswell … and the @ button … yes the internet aswell … cars and stuff like the microwave … … one second - gotta reload now ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/688 "2013-07-18T13:33:44Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Except, he’s not the only witness, and the other witnesses support his story. But you are certainly correct that he’s the real victim here, both of Martin’s attack and the legal system that failed him. You were asking me, but I can’t improve of **Steophan’s** perfect answer. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/689 "2013-07-18T13:36:28Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > But you don’t know why, and never will. How do you know it was a criminal act? We have enough evidence from various sources to have a good idea. That’s why I said 99%. There’s always the chance that aliens or ghosts did it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/690 "2013-07-18T13:41:05Z")
> [@fudrucker](#): > > Is this another example of compassionate diversity by the left? I think “the left” tends to think you’re not worth engaging when you call them Marxists. I think they’re probably right. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/691 "2013-07-18T13:42:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The point is it’s trivially easy to imagine highly plausible scenarios in which Martin committed no crime at any stage of the encounter. And in the context of a criminal inquiry about Martin, that’s what we must do. I find your scenario completely implausible. > [@](#): > > If they showed up and Martin told them the story I just did? They would laugh at him and promptly arrest him. Generally speaking if one person viciously beats another person causing injuries to them and doesn’t have any injuries themselves the cops will arrest them. Coming up with a silly story to handwave everything away would not be taken seriously, especially if it had no evidence backing it up. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/692 "2013-07-18T13:49:16Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Really? > > During the trial, I seem to remember your generally offering laudatory comments about how the prosecution was doing. Hmmm, that’s funny. I see no laudatory comments in anything that posted. Just criticisms of the defense. Sorry that you think me giving the State and the jury the benefit of the doubt until I had reason to judge them is akin to praising them. It’s sad that you’re so invested in proving yourself to me, **Bricker**. You get a D-. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/693 "2013-07-18T13:50:59Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Why did all the benefit of the doubt go to GZ and none of it go to the victim? Leaving aside that Zimmerman was in fact the victim, Zimmerman got all the benefit of the doubt because _he was on trial_. That’s how it works. A trial is, of necessity, a deeply unfair, biased system in favour of the defendant. Such a system is necessary to protect all of us. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/694 "2013-07-18T13:57:03Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Generally speaking if one person viciously beats another person causing injuries to them and doesn’t have any injuries themselves the cops will arrest them. Coming up with a silly story to handwave everything away would not be taken seriously, especially if it had no evidence backing it up. Nobody viciously beat anyone. Zimmerman had a couple of scratches on the back of his head and _refused medical attention_ at least until the following day. Considering how many “alternative” media outlets have been insisting that Martin was a 6’+ tower of muscle, is it really implausible that Zimmerman started a fight and then proceeded to lose? I’m not saying that’s what happened, just that it is every bit as plausible as any other scenario. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/695 "2013-07-18T13:58:58Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You can tell me whatever you want, you may not threaten me. Approaching you is not a threat nor any other crime. > [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > [Wrong](http://www.fox16.com/news/local/story/Waller-found-not-guilty/dalJWO1BKk-HpcWLFtt1rg.cspx) That shooting was captured on video. [Here is the link.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoALOGnl76A) Now, **Evil Economist** , if you’ll direct your attention to 0:27, you’ll see the car driven by the shooting victim pulls up directly behind the car driven by the defendant, and the man who would be shot seconds later leaps out of the driver’s side and charges towards the shooter. Do you believe that characterizing this action as merely “approaching” the defendant was the best, most truthful, most accurate summary you could have made about these events? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/696 "2013-07-18T14:00:53Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Hmmm, that’s funny. I see no laudatory comments in anything that posted. Just criticisms of the defense. Maybe you aren’t aware of this, but if the witness testimony is bearing out the prosecution theory, it’s because the prosecution is doing a good job. Hence, this: [QUOTE=ywtf] While the defense attacks inconsequential bullshit, what is obvious is that all the prosecution witnesses are corroborating each other stories. And most importantly, there are certain things NOT showing up in their testimoney as well. [/QUOTE] … appears at first blush to be a pat on the back. This one sounds like praise too: > [@](#): > > …there is a big difference in interpersonal skills between BLDR and O’Mara/West. > > … I think women are more attuned to non-verbal communication than men are, and the prosecution is winning in that area. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/697 "2013-07-18T14:01:08Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Hmmm, that’s funny. I see no laudatory comments in anything that posted. Just criticisms of the defense. Sorry that you think me giving the State and the jury the benefit of the doubt until I had reason to judge them is akin to praising them. > > It’s sad that you’re so invested in proving yourself to me, **Bricker**. You get a D-. So, again, can you point to any posts you made during the trial that reveal how you thought the prosecution was botching their case? DID you make any such posts? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/698 "2013-07-18T14:01:30Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Then can you please explain your comment further? It seemed like you were referring to MLK’s comments that black people bring much of their misery on themselves. And that Treyvon similarly brought his fate onto himself. I’ll recap… **aldiboronti** posts this… > [@aldiboronti](#): > > That is one of the best pieces I’ve read on the current situation. The quote from MLK was very telling. That man was worth a thousand of any of the current crop of African-American leaders. He quotes this from MLK: > [@MLK](#): > > “Do you know that Negroes are 10 percent of the population of St. Louis and are responsible for 58% of its crimes? We’ve got to face that. And we’ve got to do something about our moral standards,” Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. told a congregation in 1961. “We know that there are many things wrong in the white world, but there are many things wrong in the black world, too. We can’t keep on blaming the white man. There are things we must do for ourselves.” **fumster** responds directly to this quote… > [@fumster](#): > > Wow, that’s about the most offensive thing I’ve read about the Zimmerman trial. So we shouldn’t blame Zimmerman, it was really Trayvon Martin’s fault . For what, exactly? Being black? I suspect that he didn’t read carefully and didn’t realize it was a quote from MLK, because it’s pretty silly to imply that the civil rights icon is racist against black people. So, I call him out… > [@Debaser](#): > > So, MLK is an offensive racist now too? You somehow interpret this to mean that I “think MLK would think that Z was justified in killing this boy who was doing nothing before Z started stalking him?” This is completely out of nowhere and has nothing at all to back it up whatsoever in my posts. I didn’t bring the MLK quote into the thread and didn’t comment on it one way or the other. I didn’t speak at all to what MLK might or might not think about the Zimmerman trial. I was just responding in surprise to **fumster’s** rather _unusual_ interpretation of it as being offensive. Got it? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/699 "2013-07-18T14:14:00Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I’ll recap… The clear inference from **aldiboronti** ’s use of the quote- not from the quote itself, because King obviously wasn’t talking about Martin- is that Martin was at fault, because “hey, blacks commit a lot of crimes; just look what MLK said!” That _is_ offensive. It’s no different than the idiots whooping about Martin rotting “like he deserves”. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/700 "2013-07-18T14:26:25Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Maybe you aren’t aware of this, but if the witness testimony is bearing out the prosecution theory, it’s because the prosecution is doing a good job. Hence, this: > > … appears at first blush to be a pat on the back. This one sounds like praise too: Ooooh, there was a moment in the trial in which I didn’t trash the prosecution and actually said they had some advantages over O’Mara and West. Burn me at the stake! The prosecution can’t make an unsophisticated witness suddenly turn into a diamond. There was no getting around Rachel or the ME; both had to take the stand and both had their own personalities. Is this the prosecution’s fault? No. It’s like blaming the defense for having an ugly liar for a client. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419.md?page=36)