# Pitting the Zimmerman trial circus **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 13, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419 "2013-07-13T19:53:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/881 "2013-07-21T17:20:57Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > He’s a liar who murdered a kid and got away with it. Deal with it. Factually untrue. “Murdered” is a legal term. Killed - yes. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/882 "2013-07-21T18:16:27Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Factually untrue. “Murdered” is a legal term. Killed - yes. Wait, “murdered” has no meaning outside the legal one? Are you sure (I ask, knowing you’re wrong)? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/883 "2013-07-21T18:18:47Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Wait, “murdered” has no meaning outside the legal one? Are you sure (I ask, knowing you’re wrong)? murder - the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought Since the killing in question was not “unlawful”, it was not murder. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/884 "2013-07-21T18:20:00Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > murder - the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought > > Since the killing in question was not “unlawful”, it was not murder. And is that the _only_ definition (I ask, knowing it isn’t)? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/885 "2013-07-21T18:22:44Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > And is that the _only_ definition (I ask, knowing it isn’t)? When it applies to killing someone? Yes. Now if you’re talking about several crows… ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/886 "2013-07-21T18:27:49Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > When it applies to killing someone? Yes. Now if you’re talking about several crows… And you would continue to hold this opinion even if you learned that the word preceded the law? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/887 "2013-07-21T18:31:02Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > And you would continue to hold this opinion even if you learned that the word preceded the law? Words have meanings. History may be interesting, but it doesn’t change the meaning of the word. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/888 "2013-07-21T18:32:27Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Here’s a clue: > > Morons review quotes _before_ commenting on them. (And in the thread, I’d just previously posted a link to the full interview on TouTube, set to start 19 minutes in, at the relevant part.) > > Imbeciles just let the neurons controlling their fingers type randomly without bothering first to acquire knowledge, thereby disrespecting any Doper who hasn’t kowtowed to the imbecilic right-wing fantasies. I’ll keep that in mind. It’s a fair criticism – I get irritated at people that don’t look at the source material before spouting off and I did the same myself. Label accepted. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/889 "2013-07-21T18:43:02Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Words have meanings. History may be interesting, but it doesn’t change the meaning of the word. So far, from my dictionary, you have given meanings 1 and 4. For some reason you have not given definitions 2, 3, or 5-7. Is there some reason for that? Perhaps you could give us definition 2 from the dictionary you are using? Hint: it’s the one that doesn’t start with the word “legal”. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/890 "2013-07-21T18:47:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’ll keep that in mind. It’s a fair criticism – I get irritated at people that don’t look at the source material before spouting off and I did the same myself. Label accepted. And I should accept guilt for my hugely excessive and abusive over-reactions to the disrespect you’ve shown me. I’ve had that emotional defect since early childhood. And (you can take this as a compliment if you wish 😉 ) I do not over-react similarly to many of the other Dopers who disrespect or abuse me because … many of them truly do appear to be clinical morons. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/891 "2013-07-21T18:47:46Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > So far, from my dictionary, you have given meanings 1 and 4. For some reason you have not given definitions 2, 3, or 5-7. Is there some reason for that? Perhaps you could give us definition 2 from the dictionary you are using? Hint: it’s the one that doesn’t start with the word “legal”. 2 a. something very difficult or dangerous 2 b. something outrageous or blameworthy So - since you’re prone to being outrageous, I charge you with murder. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/892 "2013-07-21T18:55:37Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > 2 a. something very difficult or dangerous > 2 b. something outrageous or blameworthy > > So - since you’re prone to being outrageous, I charge you with murder. Denied, I was not being unlawfully outrageous. You still seem not to have quoted the definition that has the word kill in it but not the word unlawfully. Just admit that words have meanings other than narrow legal ones and move on with your life; Bricker should not be your role model in this respect. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/893 "2013-07-21T19:06:29Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Denied, I was not being unlawfully outrageous. > > You still seem not to have quoted the definition that has the word kill in it but not the word unlawfully. > **[Definition of MURDER](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/murder)** > > the crime of unlawfully and unjustifiably killing a person; specifically, law : such a crime committed under circumstances defined by statute; something very difficult or dangerous; something outrageous or blameworthy… See the full definition ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/894 "2013-07-21T19:12:55Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Words have meanings. History may be interesting, but it doesn’t change the meaning of the word. And the _meaning_ of the word “murder” is _not_ limited to what you say it is. Your position leads to the ridiculous conclusion that killing innocent people “isn’t murder” if a dictator does the paperwork to declare it legal first. That is not how people use the word. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/895 "2013-07-21T19:24:45Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And the _meaning_ of the word “murder” is _not_ limited to what you say it is. > > Your position leads to the ridiculous conclusion that killing innocent people “isn’t murder” if a dictator does the paperwork to declare it legal first. That is not how people use the word. Was Zimmerman a dictator? Did he do some paperwork to declare his killing of Martin legal? What are you ranting about? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/896 "2013-07-21T19:32:57Z")
Na ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/897 "2013-07-21T19:34:33Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I love that you searched so hard for a dictionary to support your point that you found one that doesn’t permit second degree murder. “Searched so hard”? It’s Merriam-Webster. First one I tried. Hardly an obscure dictionary. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/898 "2013-07-21T19:37:53Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > “Searched so hard”? It’s Merriam-Webster. First one I tried. Hardly an obscure dictionary. > **[Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/murder?s=t)** > > The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years! ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/899 "2013-07-21T19:47:42Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > “Searched so hard”? It’s Merriam-Webster. First one I tried. Hardly an obscure dictionary. If this is the first dictionary you tried, why doesn’t it have the definition of a flock of crows that you gave earlier? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/900 "2013-07-21T19:53:23Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > If this is the first dictionary you tried, why doesn’t it have the definition of a flock of crows that you gave earlier? Cuz I know that one without a dictionary. Duh. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419.md?page=44) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419.md?page=46)