# Pitting the Zimmerman trial circus **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 13, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419 "2013-07-13T19:53:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 48
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/941 "2013-07-23T03:15:02Z")
> [@Cat\_Herdsman](#): > > Did you pull that information out of a camel’s ass or something? I don’t know why it’s so important for you to believe that Zimmerman is a racist ogre, and I don’t really care, but anyone who thinks Trayvon was an innocent victim is lost to common sense. But being an Arab, I guess you wouldn’t really care much about an Hispanic being sacrificed on the altar of political correctness. Banned name. ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/942 "2013-07-23T04:43:54Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [Tampa Bay 44](http://tampa.cbslocal.com/2013/07/22/zimmerman-helps-save-family-of-four-from-overturned-vehicle/) > > George Zimmerman helped save the lives of a family of four that were involved in a single-car accident. I read that (very short) article. Based on what it says, stating that Zimmerman helped “save their lives” is a _totally ridiculous_ exaggeration. He helped pull them out of the car. Apparently none of them had any injuries. It’s great for him to stop and see if they needed help, but it was just a good thing to do and not “heroic” or “lifesaving” in this particular instance. Was pulling them out of the car a good thing for him to do? Other people might say yes, but I’ve taken first aid courses many times, and I think he probably did a stupid thing pulling them out. It’s great that he stopped to help, but it was a rollover accident and the passengers could have been injured. If I came upon a car accident, I would _never_ move the passengers unless there was an imminent danger (e.g. fire, or massive bleeding that you can’t stop without moving them, or they need CPR). There’s always a chance they could have a spinal injury and moving them for no reason could make it worse. There was likely no reason to pull those people out of the car until EMS could get there and evaluate them. And if they tried to get out on their own I would even try to convince them to stay still unless they absolutely have to move. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/943 "2013-07-23T05:31:51Z")
Wondering where the follow up story is. Like “Family Lauds Brave Hero”. Nobody tracked them down, stuck a mike in their collective face? Odd. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/944 "2013-07-23T05:36:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Sorry, but Chris Serino was a prosecution witness. He was a police officer trying to convict Zimmerman. And he didn’t report that Zimmerman said any such thing. In fact, no one did. > > Except the Today show, by airing the police call in which Zimmerman is heard to ay, “this guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black.” > > That may be why people believe he suspected Martin because Martin was black. Serino told the FBI that Zimmerman suspected Martin of being a prowler “because of the previous burglary suspects in the community”. Since the “previous burglary suspects” were black that means in Serino’s opinion, the fact that they and Martin were “black” was part of the reason Zimmerman suspected Martin. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/945 "2013-07-23T05:45:41Z")
> [@Cat\_Herdsman](#): > > Did you pull that information out of a camel’s ass or something? I don’t know why it’s so important for you to believe that Zimmerman is a racist ogre, and I don’t really care, but anyone who thinks Trayvon was an innocent victim is lost to common sense. But being an Arab, I guess you wouldn’t really care much about an Hispanic being sacrificed on the altar of political correctness. Er…no, the FBI interviewed George Zimmerman’s cousin and she said the he and the rest of the family were quite racist towards African-Americans. [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/16/george-zimmerman\_n\_1676729.html](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/16/george-zimmerman_n_1676729.html) There’s no reason to get all hot and bothered because I revealed that your claim that the FBI report didn’t produce anyone who called Zimmerman a racist. Beyond that, I’m not an Arab and have never claimed to be. I’m an Iranian, though I grew up in the US and I’m not aware of Iran having any camels. Beyond that, I didn’t attack you based on your nationality so I don’t see why you’re attacking me based on mine(though you obviously didn’t know what it was). ---
**Author:** ![Passion\_of\_the\_Shrubber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@Passion\_of\_the\_Shrubber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Passion_of_the_Shrubber)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/946 "2013-07-23T06:47:10Z")
I have a question about one of Zimmerman’s statements made to investigators which I just came across on the second page of this article: [http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/06/21/2860569\_p2/zimmerman-told-police-trayvon.html](http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/06/21/2860569_p2/zimmerman-told-police-trayvon.html) > [@](#): > > On the tapes released Thursday, Zimmerman said Trayvon “appeared out of nowhere.” > > “You got a problem?” Zimmerman said Trayvon asked. In another statement, he phrased it, “You got a f—ing problem, homie?” > > “I said no, I don’t have a problem,’” Zimmerman said he responded. **He said he fumbled for his cellphone and thought it was in his pants. But it was in his jacket pocket.** > > “He just punched me in the nose. And I fell backwards and to the side, and somehow I wound up on my back. He ended up on top of me. And he just kept punching my face. And my head. And I was screaming for help,” Zimmerman said. > > “Shut the f— up,” Trayvon said as he kept punching him, Zimmerman recounted. > > “He slammed my head into the concrete,” Zimmerman said. “Each time it felt like my head was going to explode… And then he covered my nose with one hand and my mouth with the other one. And he told me shut the f— up. And I couldn’t breathe. I was suffocating. And all I could think about was I didn’t want him to keep slamming my head against the concrete.” Supposing what Zimmerman stated here is true, couldn’t it be possible that Trayvon perceived Zimmerman was reaching for a gun and this is why he punched him? Trayvon would’ve had the right to defend himself if this were the case, yes? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/947 "2013-07-23T08:11:56Z")
> [@](#): > > …Serino: OK. And in the middle of all that yelling, nobody came out to help you. And I can’t, I can’t pinpoint where you were smothered. That’s the problem I’m having. And nobody’s saying they saw him smothering you. People are saying they saw you, saw him on top of you, but they didn’t see about the smothering part. So… > > Singleton: And when we’re listening to the screaming, doesn’t sound like there’s a hesitation in the screaming. It sounds like it’s continuous, and if someone’s being hurt (imitates scream being muffled) It’s gonna stop. But we don’t hear the, we don’t hear it stop… From the transcript lined in post #580 > [@](#): > > …… And then he covered my nose with one hand and my mouth with the other one. And he told me shut the f— up. And I couldn’t breathe. I was suffocating… From link offered above > [@](#): > > Lt. Columbo: See, theres’ just this one thing, little detail I need to clear up, keeps bothering me, can’t sleep because I keep thinking…how can a guy who’s being smothered keep screaming? Maybe if he can breathe through his ears? My wife says she wishes I could breathe through my ears, but I haven’t figured out how… (OK, I’m making that last part up…) ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/948 "2013-07-23T09:15:10Z")
I’m not sure why the TM side is trying so hard to paint GZ as a monster. If successful, that would just _negate the moral_ of this tale. The moral is visible most clearly if we accept that GZ was an ordinary American, like you or me. An ordinary man who, victimized by our racial prejudices, inchoate anger, and crazy gun culture, ended up killing a teenager who was just out to buy Skittles. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/949 "2013-07-23T09:55:41Z")
> [@Passion\_of\_the\_Shrubber](#): > > Supposing what Zimmerman stated here is true, couldn’t it be possible that Trayvon perceived Zimmerman was reaching for a gun and this is why he punched him? Trayvon would’ve had the right to defend himself if this were the case, yes? Quite possibly, and that wouldn’t change the fact the Zimmerman would _also_ have the right to defend himself. It really depends whether Martin was in reasonable fear of imminent harm, but as that is both unknowable and not terribly relevant, no conclusions about it have been drawn. For it _not_ to be the case that Zimmerman would also have the right to defend himself, he would either have to be proven to have provoked the fight, under a rather narrow legal definition, or be charged with a separate forcible felony that he was engaged in at the time of the fight. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/950 "2013-07-23T11:44:10Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Sorry, but when you suspect that Trayvon Martin is a prowler because he’s black then you are a racist. I know. The kind of racist that would walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery. Then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/951 "2013-07-23T13:03:13Z")
… and then shot him anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/952 "2013-07-23T13:17:35Z")
Is it racist to be afraid of Hispanics? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/953 "2013-07-23T14:00:42Z")
> [@Passion\_of\_the\_Shrubber](#): > > Supposing what Zimmerman stated here is true, couldn’t it be possible that Trayvon perceived Zimmerman was reaching for a gun and this is why he punched him? Trayvon would’ve had the right to defend himself if this were the case, yes? No. I say “No,” flatly, because in my view, no jury would acquit Martin of battery if the encounter ended there. The mere fact that someone is reaching into a pocket is not a threatening act, as a matter of law, unless it’s combined with some other threat, such as, “I’m going to blow your heard off,” or “I have a gun.” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/954 "2013-07-23T14:06:48Z")
Or you’re a cop. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/955 "2013-07-23T14:24:29Z")
Cops don’t keep their guns in their pockets. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/956 "2013-07-23T14:30:18Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > What is your point, was it lost in translation? Z didn’t say it to Serino, but to the dispatcher, and this changes what, exactly? > > And because Serino was a witness for the prosecution, you say “He was a police officer trying to convict Zimmerman”? Zimmerman never said it at all. See how pervasive the lie is? Zimmerman never said that, period. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/957 "2013-07-23T14:32:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Or you’re a cop. No. There still needs to be something else, like “Police! Show me your hands!” Someone reaching for a phone after being given that command could indeed be seen as threatening by police. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/958 "2013-07-23T16:13:27Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’m not sure why the TM side is trying so hard to paint GZ as a monster. If successful, that would just _negate the moral_ of this tale. > > The moral is visible most clearly if we accept that GZ was an ordinary American, like you or me. An ordinary man who, victimized by our racial prejudices, inchoate anger, and crazy gun culture, ended up killing a teenager who was just out to buy Skittles. This needs to be said again. That meme about how “I am Trayvon Martin”? We are all Trayvon Martin. But we are also George Zimmerman. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/959 "2013-07-23T16:29:55Z")
> [@sugaree](#): > > We are all Trayvon Martin. But we are also George Zimmerman. So why aren’t we all punching ourselves in the face? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419/960 "2013-07-23T16:31:24Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So why aren’t we all punching ourselves in the face? > > Regards, > Shodan We are, it’s just against the rules to talk about it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419.md?page=47) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-the-zimmerman-trial-circus/663419.md?page=49)