# Pitting today's bully. Not Mitt Romney. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 12, 2012, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-todays-bully-not-mitt-romney/621663 "2012-05-12T01:52:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-todays-bully-not-mitt-romney/621663/21 "2012-05-12T04:55:31Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > They provide birth control. The Catholic Church thinks birth control is bad because it lets people have sex for fun without worrying about things like getting pregnant. An organization rife with closeted pedophiles has no need for birth control. Little boys don’t get pregnant. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-todays-bully-not-mitt-romney/621663/22 "2012-05-12T04:57:12Z")
I imagine parish priests, who have to deal with these girls and their _mothers_ [shudder], mothers who are likely to be in the PTA, too, are planning carefully how they can defuse the situation without pissing off their “bosses” since they know who their REAL bosses are. And they have until 5PM mass on Saturday to write the sermon. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-todays-bully-not-mitt-romney/621663/23 "2012-05-12T05:14:02Z")
Actually this is taking the basketball and going home, not bullying. It’s still bad behavior, but not even hypocritical for the Catholic Church. This is the church belief system. But if the keep it up, the 3 or 4 old ladies who still go to Mass might not do that anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-todays-bully-not-mitt-romney/621663/24 "2012-05-12T05:27:58Z")
Damn! I just created an [Abortion Merit Badge](http://www.flickr.com/photos/12544059@N03/7180193432/in/photostream), and now they probably won’t use it. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-todays-bully-not-mitt-romney/621663/25 "2012-05-12T12:18:01Z")
Yeah, according to Catholics, Oxfam are the evil version of CAFOD. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-todays-bully-not-mitt-romney/621663/26 "2012-05-12T12:26:43Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Those bishops better start selling some _really_ tasty cookies… jes’ sayin’. They’ve been handing out cookies for centuries. Their recipe sucks. If the body of Christ tasted more like a Samoa I’d probably convert. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-todays-bully-not-mitt-romney/621663/27 "2012-05-12T14:48:46Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Actually this is taking the basketball and going home, not bullying. It’s still bad behavior, but not even hypocritical for the Catholic Church. This is the church belief system. But if the keep it up, the 3 or 4 old ladies who still go to Mass might not do that anymore. I’d like to see the Catholic bishops take on the NRA for their stance assault rifles, cop killing bullets and facilitating the Mexican drug war instead of putting the microscope to the Girl Scouts. Man-up bishops, but I suppose that is impossible. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-todays-bully-not-mitt-romney/621663/28 "2012-05-12T15:14:16Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > So, if you don’t approve of something you’re now a bully? The RCC has medieval beliefs about sex. If they decide to not approve or sponsor a group that is a bit more modern that that, it’s stupid. But it has nothing to do with bullying. They are not simply disapproving of something but actively investigating the Girl Scouts, I think that crosses into bullying territory, especially considering the nature of the organizations they are against. Seriously, Doctors without Borders? If they have an objection, they should stuff it in their hats and shut the fuck up. You know, I think there’d be some kind of a market for a PR firm that strictly does public relations for conservative organizations by making them look not at all insane. In this case, what the Catholic Church’s response should have been was: “There have been allegations of the Girl Scouts having ties to organizations that espouse views contrary to our beliefs. While the Church does sponsor some troops, these are all done at the local level and should not be seen as an endorsement of all of that troops’ views or the views of organizations they are associated with. We have faith that parishes are upholding the teachings of the Church and they are allowed the leeway to associate with whomever they want. While organizations like Doctors without Borders may provide family planning services that we don’t agree with, they do important work in dangerous areas and they have our full support. We don’t have to agree with them in every situation to see the group as a benefit to all of God’s children.” But of course, in order to say that, the Church would actually have to be a moral organization and have some human decency. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-todays-bully-not-mitt-romney/621663/29 "2012-05-12T16:20:24Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > They are not simply disapproving of something but actively investigating the Girl Scouts, I think that crosses into bullying territory, especially considering the nature of the organizations they are against. How are they supposed to know if they can actively support an organization without investigating whether or not it violates any of the important religious doctrines the church holds? And you can’t hold up the Girl Scouts as being immune to investigations because, what could possibly be wrong with the Girl Scouts? If the GS want the support of the RCC, then they need to abide by its wishes. Just like everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-todays-bully-not-mitt-romney/621663/30 "2012-05-12T16:50:59Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > An organization rife with closeted pedophiles has no need for birth control. Little boys don’t get pregnant. I don’t think the RCC is an “organization rife with closeted pedophiles”. There’s not really any evidence that there are more pedophiles in the RCC than any other group. What made the sex abuse scandal a scandal was that, in the 60s through 80s, when sexual abuse happened, the general policy of church leaders was, to avoid bad press, to hush it up and transfer the accused priests elsewhere (where, in a lot of cases, they continued with their abuse). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-todays-bully-not-mitt-romney/621663/31 "2012-05-12T18:19:00Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > How are they supposed to know if they can actively support an organization without investigating whether or not it violates any of the important religious doctrines the church holds? And you can’t hold up the Girl Scouts as being immune to investigations because, what could possibly be wrong with the Girl Scouts? If the GS want the support of the RCC, then they need to abide by its wishes. Just like everyone else. They teach birth control and self esteem to young girls. The RCC is fundamentally opposed to both. An “investigation” is not needed as this is undisputed public knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-todays-bully-not-mitt-romney/621663/32 "2012-05-12T18:28:03Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > They’ve been handing out cookies for centuries. Their recipe sucks. If the body of Christ tasted more like a Samoa I’d probably convert. I administer the Eucharist (in English, pass out wafers and Port). So far I’ve resisted the urge to say “The Body of Christ, given for you… but watch out, it’s kind of dry. Hey, Jesus, would it kill you to use a moisturizer?” ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-todays-bully-not-mitt-romney/621663/33 "2012-05-12T18:40:51Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > They teach birth control and self esteem to young girls. The RCC is fundamentally opposed to both. An “investigation” is not needed as this is undisputed public knowledge. They teach birth control? They [say they don’t](http://home.catholicweb.com/gsreg5/files/Fact_Sheet_and_Action_Plan_2011.pdf): > [@](#): > > What is GSUSA’s position regarding human sexuality, birth control, and abortion? > > Girl Scouts of the USA does not take a position or develop materials on these issues. I personally have no problem with Scout troops teaching girls facts about birth control, but I think that if it is true (and not only true but “undisputed public knowledge”) that they do, then the GSUSA ought to publicly acknowledge it. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-todays-bully-not-mitt-romney/621663/34 "2012-05-12T19:37:12Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I don’t think the RCC is an “organization rife with closeted pedophiles”. There’s not really any evidence that there are more pedophiles in the RCC than any other group. That’s just part of their “everybody does it!” defense. Simple logic indicates that they must have more; if other groups are not protecting pedophiles but they are, then even if they started out with the same number of pedophiles, they’d accumulate over time while the pedophiles in other groups were caught and removed. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-todays-bully-not-mitt-romney/621663/35 "2012-05-12T19:38:33Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > They teach birth control Cite? **Kimstu’s** cite is a bit ambiguous, but it looks like they might. > [@](#): > > and self esteem to young girls. I’m sure they do. > [@](#): > > The RCC is fundamentally opposed to both. The RCC is “fundamentally opposed” to teaching “self esteem” to girls? You’re an idiot. You’re the kind of idiot that makes an atheist, like me (and **Kimstu** ), defend the RCC. You’re the kind of poster here that makes fighting ignorance a full time job. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-todays-bully-not-mitt-romney/621663/36 "2012-05-12T19:51:46Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > They teach birth control? They [say they don’t](http://home.catholicweb.com/gsreg5/files/Fact_Sheet_and_Action_Plan_2011.pdf): > I personally have no problem with Scout troops teaching girls facts about birth control, but I think that if it is true (and not only true but “undisputed public knowledge”) that they do, then the GSUSA ought to publicly acknowledge it. From your cite, it does look like they do teach “something”. They are careful to say that the girls need parental permission to attend classes, but they don’t really say what the content of those classes are. And, of course, I am more than happy to see the GS teach birth control. The Boy Scouts should do so, too. It’s a life skill every bit as important as being able to tie a bowline knot in 3 seconds. Yes, I can do that in 3 seconds. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-todays-bully-not-mitt-romney/621663/37 "2012-05-12T19:55:31Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The RCC is “fundamentally opposed” to teaching “self esteem” to girls? You’re an idiot. Hardly. The RCC is notoriously patriarchal. Women are in its viewpoint second class citizens, and taught to stay that way. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-todays-bully-not-mitt-romney/621663/38 "2012-05-12T20:08:14Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > From your cite, it does look like they do teach “something”. They are careful to say that the girls need parental permission to attend classes, but they don’t really say what the content of those classes are. > > And, of course, I am more than happy to see the GS teach birth control. The Boy Scouts should do so, too. It’s a life skill every bit as important as being able to tie a bowline knot in 3 seconds. Yes, I can do that in 3 seconds. 🙂 When I was in Catholic High School, we got the best sex ed, including birth control, in the county. The public schools had to deal with all the outraged parents, but since we had a waiting list, the Vice Principal for curriculum could tell them to go to hell. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-todays-bully-not-mitt-romney/621663/39 "2012-05-12T21:06:31Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > There’s not really any evidence that there are more pedophiles in the RCC than any other group. I’m thinking the amount of exposure we’ve seen on this issue says otherwise. The Boy Scouts (seemingly an attractive target to a pedophile) are damned quick to vociferously run you out and make sure you don’t get back in, whereas the Catholic Church quietly sends you to a new town and doesn’t breath a word of warning to anyone. On the contrary, it’s more like “Hey! Here’s some new victims! Enjoy!” If they were really serious about the issue, the Catholic Church would a\> Turn the offender over the authorities the moment they became aware of the activity, b\> fully cooperate with all investigations, c\> Welcome criminal charges, d\> Publicly denounce the offender, and e\> Eject the offender from their organization. But they don’t do any of that, do they. No. Instead they obstruct justice and hide criminal behavior in their ranks. Which in my mind makes them a criminal organization. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-todays-bully-not-mitt-romney/621663/40 "2012-05-12T21:22:59Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > But they don’t do any of that, do they. Well, they do now, at least as per their [2002 Charter for the Protection of Children and Young People](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_for_the_Protection_of_Children_and_Young_People#Charter_for_the_Protection_of_Children_and_Young_People). Or at least, it’s now their stated official policy to do so; I have no idea what the actual compliance with terms of the Charter has been like in the case of Church officials accused of abuse since the adoption of the Charter. > [@Captain Amazing](#): > > I don’t think the RCC is an “organization rife with closeted pedophiles”. There’s not really any evidence that there are more pedophiles in the RCC than any other group. > [@Der Trihs](#): > > Simple logic indicates that they must have more > [@Chimera](#): > > I’m thinking the amount of exposure we’ve seen on this issue says otherwise. However, the available actual evidence on the subject seems to indicate that **Captain Amazing** is right. Certainly, the behavior of many Church officials in attempting to hide or dismiss concerns about priests sexually abusing children has been abominable and scandalous. But the actual prevalence of child molestation and abuse among Catholic priests does not seem to be statistically higher than among males in general, as this article notes: > [@](#): > > Since the mid-1980s, insurance companies have offered sexual misconduct coverage as a rider on liability insurance, and their own studies indicate that Catholic churches are not higher risk than other congregations. Insurance companies that cover all denominations, such as Guide One Center for Risk Management, which has more than 40,000 church clients, does not charge Catholic churches higher premiums. “We don’t see vast difference in the incidence rate between one denomination and another,” says Sarah Buckley, assistant vice president of corporate communications. “It’s pretty even across the denominations.” […] > > The only hard data that has been made public by any denomination comes from John Jay College’s study of Catholic priests, which was authorized and is being paid for by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops following the public outcry over the 2002 scandals. Limiting their study to plausible accusations made between 1950 and 1992, John Jay researchers reported that about 4 percent of the 110,000 priests active during those years had been accused of sexual misconduct involving children. […] > > Experts disagree on the rate of sexual abuse among the general American male population, but Allen says a conservative estimate is one in 10. Margaret Leland Smith, a researcher at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, says her review of the numbers indicates it’s closer to one in 5. But in either case, the rate of abuse by Catholic priests is not higher than these national estimates. The public also doesn’t realize how “profoundly prevalent” child sexual abuse is, adds Smith. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-todays-bully-not-mitt-romney/621663.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-todays-bully-not-mitt-romney/621663.md?page=3)