# Pitting Traitorous Black Male Trump Supporters **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [November 8, 2024, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-traitorous-black-male-trump-supporters/1009929 "2024-11-08T13:31:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-traitorous-black-male-trump-supporters/1009929/141 "2024-11-08T20:19:37Z")
Here’s my take on the Democrats’ Way Forward. I still leave it to those with the data, the analytics, and the experience to fill in the blanks, though: > [@US-Americans, I Pit you!](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-americans-i-pit-you/924745/150): > > Rather than simply say, “I couldn’t agree with you more,” I (probably not for the first time) offer the summary of this study that always stuck with me: “A study by scientists at New York University and the University of California, Los Angeles, found differences in how self-described liberal and conservative research participants responded to changes in patterns. Participants were asked to tap a keyboard when the letter “M” appeared on a computer monitor and to refrain from tapping when they… If the Republicans continue to read from _The Demagogues’ Handbook_ So. Fucking. Brazenly., then I’m at a loss to come up with any simple answer to keeping them out of power for a decade or three. When the other guy brings a gun to a knife fight, you’ve got a big problem. I don’t have the answer for where the Democrats can get their gun. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-traitorous-black-male-trump-supporters/1009929/142 "2024-11-08T23:05:07Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > > [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > > > No, they’re trying to determine how _they_ messed up, and changes _they_ are going to make. > > Of course they are, and they are right to do so. It’s their job. > > That doesn’t mean our analysis should only be based on what the DNC did wrong. Yeah, I think that attitudes like Crafter\_Man’s about political strategizing are somewhat distorted by the influence of organized sports and similar competitions. The underlying assumption seems to be that the political “horse race” is a competition according to a given set of rules, like a football game, and the opposing “teams” are pitting their strategies and skills against each other. So whichever side loses the game was outplayed by the superior performance of the other side, and the losers need to huddle to figure out how they can improve, rather than bitching about the winners. That’s not really an accurate analogy, though. Even if the actual balloting is (mostly) a level playing field, it doesn’t take into account systemic unethical behavior, like Republican media outlets feeding their voters made-up conspiracy theories and baseless propaganda 24/7. Stuff like that is not the other team outplaying your side; it’s more like the other team sabotaging your side by hiring goons to beat up and poison the players. But there’s no governing body that regulates or punishes it. In that sense, the job of the DNC is more like that of firefighters or other first responders than team coaches. They’re faced with the ungovernable arson-like effects of Republican irresponsibility and mendacity in the public sphere, and they have to figure out how to contain and push back against it without being destructive themselves. But that doesn’t mean that the DNC are the ones to blame for the Republicans’ having won. Any more than the firefighters are to blame for the fact that an arsonist set a fire that killed people and destroyed a lot of property. Sure, they’re the ones who have to fight the fire and strategize about how to reduce the chances of similar catastrophes in the future, but that’s different from a losing team having to figure out “how they messed up”. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-traitorous-black-male-trump-supporters/1009929/143 "2024-11-08T23:36:17Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I’m not aware of any Republican running on a platform of causing physical harm to black people, but I could just be uninformed. Well, Trump would like them to take back the black jobs that immigrants stole from them. You know, like working the fields, hard labor and cleaning up after their betters other people. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-traitorous-black-male-trump-supporters/1009929/144 "2024-11-08T23:45:20Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > I don’t have the answer for where the Democrats can get their gun. Democrats believe nobody should have guns, not that they should get guns too. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-traitorous-black-male-trump-supporters/1009929/145 "2024-11-09T00:00:17Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Bottom line is Dems simply did not deliver on promises. Biden made the stock market better. That’s about it. Well, apart from all the things I already fucking mentioned. > [@Babale](#): > > No, what’s important here is that we learn from our mistakes and don’t repeat this disastrous electoral performance at the midterms, or in 2028. Assigning blame is not important at all, except for insofar as it allows us to identify and fix problems for next time. Millions of people on the internet right now have already definitively identified the problems and proposed a fix. And for some strange reason, the “fix” is always “do exactly what I want”. [![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CA0vTHRU0AAGz84.jpg) ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CA0vTHRU0AAGz84.jpg) > [@TriPolar](#): > > That is the problem. The Democratic party has failed the country again. Well, apart from the fact that I’ve already debunked this nonsense. > [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > No, they just need to _understand_ the real desires, concerns, and needs of most people. They do. But the Republicans have convinced them - and you - that they don’t. People still believe that Hillary Clinton’s main campaign focus was fringe minority rights. It wasn’t. It was jobs. Jobs were front and center of her messaging. But the GOP is so skilled at misinformation and disinformation that it all got buried. Hell, there are still millions of people who think her “what difference does it make” comment indicated she didn’t care about the deaths at Benghazi. But several posters here apparently think that it’s the Democrats who have to change. Maybe if Clinton had been less “shrill” she might have gotten her message across, right? > [@Babale](#): > > I didn’t say that white nationalism is a fringe issue. I said that the number of people who voted for Trump because they support white nationalism is tiny. Overtly? Maybe. But there’s a lot to indicate it’s just under the surface in a lot of others. > [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Blaming the voters is a worthless strategy. The only blame goes to the Democratic Party. “Yes, but the light’s better over here.” Blaming the voters is _accurate_. Blaming the Republicans is _accurate_. Blaming the Democrats is not. > [@Mijin](#): > > Pointing out the lies is, apparently, “telling people they’re dumb”, so that’s off the table. > > Meanwhile, offering policy solutions is what the _losers_ in this election did. The irony of this whole thread is that it underlines the real issue: the Democrats’ failed strategy was to treat voters like rational adults with agency rather than treating them like gullible lemmings, the strategy the GOP continues to use with great success. > [@Babale](#): > > Portraying the Democratic Party as _victims_ is a surefire way to lose the electorate. No one wants to vote for a loser who’s crying about being victimized; they want to vote for someone who makes them feel like they have a plan to lead them to victory. Yes, the Democrats should prove their strength by picking some vulnerable demographic and spreading vile propaganda about them. That seems to be a winning strategy. And such a wonderful country we’ll have in this race to the bottom. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-traitorous-black-male-trump-supporters/1009929/146 "2024-11-09T00:03:12Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Blaming the voters is _accurate_. Blaming the Republicans is _accurate_. Blaming the Democrats is not. Well, enjoy blaming them for as long as you want. When you’re ready to move on to productive solutions and figuring out a strategy to win voters next time, we’d love to have you. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-traitorous-black-male-trump-supporters/1009929/147 "2024-11-09T00:04:13Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > But several posters here apparently think that it’s the Democrats who have to change You’re right, the Democrats should keep doing exactly what they’re doing and be stunned when it doesn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-traitorous-black-male-trump-supporters/1009929/148 "2024-11-09T00:04:18Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Millions of people on the internet right now have already definitively identified the problems and proposed a fix. And for some strange reason, the “fix” is always “do exactly what I want”. Meh. We saw Clinton lose in 2016. Heck we saw her lose in 2012 too. Biden won in 2020 but only by a historic voter turnout. A turnout that evaporated in 2024 and Harris lost. And Clinton and Harris lost to Trump…perhaps the most awful politician in US history. Maybe…just maybe…the Dems need to re-think their approach. That assumes they ever get another chance which may not happen. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-traitorous-black-male-trump-supporters/1009929/149 "2024-11-09T00:05:56Z")
I already did. The Democrats just have to become even bigger morally bankrupt liars advocating policies based on hurting “those people”. I mean, that’s what you want, right? Because you seem to handwave away any option that involves Democrats being the adults in the room. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-traitorous-black-male-trump-supporters/1009929/150 "2024-11-09T00:07:35Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I already did. The Democrats just have to become even bigger morally bankrupt liars advocating policies based on hurting “those people”. > > I mean, that’s what you want, right? I mean, you could just read any of the posts where I explain what I want and respond to those, but if it gives you comfort to respond to this straw man instead, I won’t stop you - we can all use whatever comfort we can get right now. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-traitorous-black-male-trump-supporters/1009929/151 "2024-11-09T00:21:08Z")
I haven’t built any strawmen - you used all the straw. Let’s look at some of your posts: > [@Babale](#): > > _The voters_ keep doing that. All that we are arguing is that we need to recognize this and act accordingly to win elections anyways, not whine about how unfair it is. > [@Babale](#): > > Portraying the Democratic Party as _victims_ is a surefire way to lose the electorate. No one wants to vote for a loser who’s crying about being victimized; they want to vote for someone who makes them feel like they have a plan to lead them to victory. Nobody suggested that the Democrats should campaign on being victims. That’s just one of the many straw buddies you’ve been busily humping. Without identifying the actual problem to fix, there’s no way to find a solution. And acknowledging that the problem is that voters **are** completely irrational beings willing to vote against their best interests if you appeal to their worst nature, and that Democrats **are** victims of a massively skilled propaganda machine that has captured most of the media isn’t “whining about how unfair it is” - it’s stating the facts of the matter. And yet here you are, handwaving away the actual problem because it makes you feel better about yourself. And the reality is that to solve THESE ACTUAL PROBLEMS, one of two things has to happen: either the electorate wise up (which unlikely to happen until the Feast of Leopards happens in a big way) or the Democrats have to adopt the same strategy and actively lie, cheat, steal and scapegoat. So which one of those options would you prefer? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-traitorous-black-male-trump-supporters/1009929/152 "2024-11-09T00:21:57Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Well, apart from the fact that I’ve already debunked this nonsense. You haven’t debunked anything. You’re just repeating the losing side of the campaign. You are saying that the people were just too dumb to understand why they’re better off not being able to pay the rent and buy food. When people are hurting they don’t vote for the side that promises no substantial change. Remember “Stay the course”. Now Democrats sounds as useless and stupid a Bush Sr. did. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-traitorous-black-male-trump-supporters/1009929/153 "2024-11-09T00:23:49Z")
I have. With specific examples. I’m sorry that reality triggers you. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-traitorous-black-male-trump-supporters/1009929/154 "2024-11-09T00:24:21Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > You haven’t debunked anything. You’re just repeating the losing side of the campaign. Who were telling the truth, so nobody _can_ debunk anything without “repeating the losers”. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-traitorous-black-male-trump-supporters/1009929/155 "2024-11-09T00:26:41Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > So which one of those options would you prefer? I’m not sure those are our two choices at all. But, it needs to be said that in the last 25 years the democrats have lost complete control of the government (all of it) and the vast majority of states. I think some soul searching is in order. The “plan” (whatever it was) for the last 25 years has failed…badly. If they are ever to get back in power (which is a real longshot now) I think it is time for them to realize they need a better plan. A completely different plan. If you say the only road out for them is lie, cheat and steal then the country is truly fucked. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-traitorous-black-male-trump-supporters/1009929/156 "2024-11-09T00:26:46Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Nobody suggested that the Democrats should campaign on being victims. That’s just one of the many straw buddies you’ve been busily humping. > > Without identifying the actual problem to fix, there’s no way to find a solution. And acknowledging that the problem is that voters **are** completely irrational beings willing to vote against their best interests if you appeal to their worst nature, and that Democrats **are** victims of a massively skilled propaganda machine that has captured most of the media isn’t “whining about how unfair it is” - it’s stating the facts of the matter. And yet here you are, handwaving away the actual problem because it makes you feel better about yourself. Ok, you must have the IQ of a dead beaver, because the fact that voters are irrational and that the Republicans have a massive media spin machine _is exactly what I have been saying_. This has been known since 2016, at least. The Democrats need to _do something about it_. > [@Gyrate](#): > > And the reality is that to solve THESE ACTUAL PROBLEMS, one of two things has to happen: either the electorate wise up (which unlikely to happen until the Feast of Leopards happens in a big way) or the Democrats have to adopt the same strategy and actively lie, cheat, steal and scapegoat. No, the Democrats just have to Appeal to the voters where they are - by appealing to them through emotion, on issues they care about. You don’t have to lie or cheat or steal or scapegoat to do that. It’s harder if you aren’t doing those things, but it’s certainly not impossible - as the multiple democrats who won handily in districts where Trump also won prove. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-traitorous-black-male-trump-supporters/1009929/157 "2024-11-09T00:27:30Z")
Oh you got me there. I forgot how much the _truth_ matters in elections. I guess it always worked before and I didn’t notice. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-traitorous-black-male-trump-supporters/1009929/158 "2024-11-09T00:27:46Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > But, it needs to be said that in the last 25 years the democrats have lost complete control of the government (all of it) and the vast majority of states. Yes. And I’ve explained why. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > If you say they only road out for them is lie, cheat and steal then the country is truly fucked. Sadly, that remains the most likely outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-traitorous-black-male-trump-supporters/1009929/159 "2024-11-09T00:28:55Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Oh you got me there. I forgot how much the _truth_ matters in elections. I guess it always worked before and I didn’t notice. Thank you for admitting that I was telling the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-traitorous-black-male-trump-supporters/1009929/160 "2024-11-09T00:34:55Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Ok, you must have the IQ of a dead beaver, because the fact that voters are irrational and that the Republicans have a massive media spin machine _is exactly what I have been saying_. This has been known since 2016, at least. The Democrats need to _do something about it_. Oh, so you _didn’t_ write that post about the Democrats campaigning on being victims? > [@Babale](#): > > No, the Democrats just have to Appeal to the voters where they are - by appealing to them through emotion, on issues they care about. As already pointed out, the “issues they care about” are largely fictitious. They cared about the massive crime wave by illegal immigrants. They cared about schools performing surgeries on schoolchildren without their parents’ permission. They cared about Kamala Harris sending all the FEMA funds to Ukraine and abandoning North Carolina. How should the Democrats have “appealed to voters” about these concerns without pointing out that they’ve been suckered into believing obvious lies? Go on, then. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-traitorous-black-male-trump-supporters/1009929.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-traitorous-black-male-trump-supporters/1009929.md?page=9)