# Pitting UltraVires **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 22, 2018, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734 "2018-09-22T16:05:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/461 "2021-07-15T17:44:09Z")
I, too, would be interested in some clarification on that point. I’d be prepared to grant that _discrimination_ is not axiomatically wrong, but then I do not grant that all discrimination, or even all discrimination based on race, constitutes racism. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/462 "2021-07-15T18:42:51Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I was amused when spending time with people from the lower peninsula of Michigan that they really do hold up their right hand to show you where their hometown is on the map. Yes! I was staying with friends in Livonia, and whenever I wanted to go somewhere outside our close environs, they always showed me where to go on their hand. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/463 "2021-07-15T21:34:19Z")
See it in action here, > [@Shodan, HurricaneDitka, and George Zimmerman: Three Racist Peas in a Racist Pod](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-hurricaneditka-and-george-zimmerman-three-racist-peas-in-a-racist-pod/825691/245): > > For me, racism is wrong because it is an unjustified and harmful overgeneralization - it is **generally** wrong to discriminate against somebody on the basis of involuntary affiliation such as race; because the affiliation is involuntary, the person has done nothing to deserve discrimination; therefore, except the rare case where race is relevant, racism is both unjustified and harmful and therefore wrong. The wrongness of racism depends on the context in which it is found. ‘Racism = bad’ is a reasonably good rule of thumb, though. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/464 "2021-07-16T00:01:29Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > > [@MrDibble](#): > > > > I don’t like the racist motherfucker, obviously, but he was clearly saying that it’s “you can call a post racist, but not a poster” that is the intellectual dodge, which is … not wrong. PAins me to say it, but there it is. > > That was not my reading. He is saying, “calling something racist [instead of debating it on its own merit] is a dodge” I went and asked him in the thread, so hopefully that resolves the question. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/465 "2021-07-16T00:47:09Z")
Have you seriously not run into a race realist before? That’s their whole deal, that discrimination is justified because it’s reality. It’s softhearted liberals who can’t see the truth that some races need to be subjugated for the greater good of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/466 "2021-07-16T01:36:06Z")
> [@Most common reason to be Pitted Appears to be Dishonesty?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/72): > > You think the Chauvin verdict was a bit too much? What the fuck is “a bit too much” about sending a murderer away? ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/467 "2021-07-16T04:00:17Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > The wrongness of racism depends on the context in which it is found. ‘Racism = bad’ is a reasonably good rule of thumb, though. The idea that all racial discrimination is necessarily racism is what gives us gems like “it’s the anti-racists who are the real racists!” from people who actually believe that nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/468 "2021-07-16T07:49:30Z")
His point there is that if you think sending him away is too much, you get called a racist. I see you guys were right about the “intellectual dodge” bit, though. Also, it’s nearly 4 in the morning in West Virginia, but he’s posting replies in there, must not have a heavy caseload (just harking back to the original thread title) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/469 "2021-07-16T08:39:04Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > ‘Racism = bad’ is a reasonably good rule of thumb, though. Are we still talking about Michigan? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/470 "2021-07-16T12:27:57Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > His point there is that if you think sending him away is too much, you get called a racist. My point is, what possible reason (other than “I don’t give a shit about Floyd because HE DARED TO COMMIT A CRIME\* so his life is forfeit”) is there to oppose sending a murderer away? And if you believe that, sorry, you’re a racist. \*you and I may know that this is questionable but this is UltraVile we are discussing here ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/471 "2021-07-16T12:52:34Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > My point is, what possible reason (other than “I don’t give a shit about Floyd because HE DARED TO COMMIT A CRIME\* so his life is forfeit”) is there to oppose sending a murderer away? And if you believe that, sorry, you’re a racist. Oh, I agree with that completely. Sorry if it seems like I was defending him again. ---
**Author:** ![tricoteuse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tricoteuse/32/4334_2.png) [@tricoteuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tricoteuse)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/472 "2021-07-16T15:17:39Z")
You can make your own from this pattern. [Ravelry: Clam Hands pattern by Kayla Dyches](https://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/clam-hands) ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/473 "2021-07-16T15:41:39Z")
Ya ain’t representing the Mitten unless you put up both hands. ![](https://c.tenor.com/gS4HifW3RrIAAAAC/michiganders-want-all-of-our-voices-to-be-heard-hands.gif "Michiganders Want All Of Our Voices To Be Heard Hands GIF - Michiganders Want...") ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/474 "2021-07-16T18:04:14Z")
If you need to use both hands to represent the state, then how can you point it where you live on either? ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/475 "2021-07-16T18:12:55Z")
Both peninsulas must be shown simultaneously taking care to leave a gap for the Straits then one may proceed to withdraw one hand to point out a geographical location on the stationary hand. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/476 "2021-07-16T18:41:55Z")
> [@chela](#): > > leave a gap for the Straits I’m pleased to see you write that. Because next I was going to ask “But whatabout the people living on islands in the Great Lakes?” (half serious–I mean, I wasn’t actually, but the thought crossed my mind how one might represent those, the… “gappers” we might now call them). ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/477 "2021-07-16T22:58:39Z")
I couldn’t even see the mittens, I was blinded by unicorn yoga pants. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2021, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/478 "2021-07-17T13:09:51Z")
To all you Michigan shade throwers: [![](https://i.etsystatic.com/20046425/c/573/456/156/51/il/8e85d0/2188325256/il_340x270.2188325256_t0nx.jpg) ](https://i.etsystatic.com/20046425/c/573/456/156/51/il/8e85d0/2188325256/il_340x270.2188325256_t0nx.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2021, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/479 "2021-07-17T19:32:06Z")
I had a UPS driver for a while who was from the UP. We were talking when I had to sign for a package once, and he mentioned that fact. I said “Oh, you’re a yooper.” He was looking down, but his head snapped up so fast when I said that I was afraid he’d hurt himself. Guess most people in L.A. don’t know what a yooper is. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2021, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/480 "2021-07-17T21:31:25Z")
Why should Michigan get all the attention? Florida is seeming a bit limp these days. [![](https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k623/Rwaggs81/HeyEuropeEatMyFlorida.jpg) ](https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k623/Rwaggs81/HeyEuropeEatMyFlorida.jpg) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734.md?page=25)