# Pitting UltraVires **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 22, 2018, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734 "2018-09-22T16:05:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/561 "2022-02-19T17:53:47Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > No, it was more that he was always trying his best to defend odious measures with gotcha games and a poor man’s Socrates. No kidding. And even as he’s arguing that police in a state where weed is not illegal should be free to spontaneously transition to mere citizens mid-traffic stop… and then invent some right of “citizen’s search” on smelling weed as a pretext to conduct a “citizen’s arrest” under federal law… he’s arguing that an old white man with a gun should get a free pass for murder: > [@Florida Movie Theater Shooting Leaves One Dead In Altercation Over Texting](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-movie-theater-shooting-leaves-one-dead-in-altercation-over-texting/678717/267): > > I agree that 8 years is ridiculous and an embarrassment to the legal system and all parties in it. But if IIRC there is some argument about early onset dementia for this old guy. And as a defense attorney, I have always thought there was an unfortunate gap between “Not legally responsible due to mental illness” and “a guy still suffering enough from a mental disability that we don’t bring the full force of the law down on him.” > > Obviously he should never own or possess a gun again, but again, IIRC, the parties keep trying to work out something to be fair. Yes, the victim is dead, but we still don’t impose worthless punishments on people who really don’t understand why they are being punished. Ok, not _quite_ a free pass. He’s willing to allow that maybe the least man should lose his second amendment rights over the incident, which I suppose to someone like UV must be on par with life imprisonment or even the death penalty. FFS. > [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > Thank goodness UV is not a lawyer. I laughed out loud at this. It was that or break down sobbing. I may yet. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/562 "2022-02-19T18:00:39Z")
> can suddenly just announce that he’s now magically just a citizen In a situation with some parallels, I’m familiar with a case where a mental health worker declared they were no longer their client’s provider and therefore they could have sex as private individuals. That worker ended up doing time in a federal pen. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/563 "2022-02-19T18:19:11Z")
‘I’m sorry Mr. Vires, I wasn’t Bob your lawyer, I was Bob the Citizen when you told me that. Attorney-client privilege didn’t apply, see you in court!’ ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/564 "2022-02-19T18:47:08Z")
I just came from the thread, and all I can say is 🤦 ---
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/565 "2022-02-19T19:06:48Z")
He insists that what he is saying has been the law for 800 years. When challenged, he provides 2 cases which have nothing to do with his position, and specifically refer to police arests, not citizen’s arrest. I would imagine the prosecutors in his area get a little smile when they learn he is defense counsel. Prosecutor: “we are looking for the defendant to serve a year of probation for the assault and battery.” UltraVires: “actually under federal law, you can charge him with possession too, so I think 2 years in prison is more fair.” ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/566 "2022-02-19T19:14:18Z")
> [@mjmartin](#): > > UltraVires: “actually under federal law, you can charge him with possession too, so I think 2 years in prison is more fair.” That or, “My client can only agree to probation on the state charges if you agree to hand over all your evidence to the US Attorney’s office first.” ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/567 "2022-02-19T19:59:25Z")
“Oh, you think that’s bad? Here’s documented video and other evidence of him doing far, far worse.” ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/568 "2022-02-19T20:06:52Z")
“Maybe if we work at it we can get [my client] charged with the Kennedy assassination.” - _A Few Good Men_ ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2022, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/569 "2022-02-20T00:07:19Z")
> [@mjmartin](#): > > I would imagine the prosecutors in his area get a little smile when they learn he is defense counsel. I said much the same thing five posts into this thread back in 2018. > [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > I can’t even imagine the whooping and high fiving that occurs in law firms in his area when his name pops up as opposing counsel. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2022, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/570 "2022-02-21T01:29:12Z")
Hopefully UV is not a family-law attorney. I’d hate for him to advocate the invocation of a Citizen’s Divorce (ref. _The Man With Two Brains_) ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2022, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/571 "2022-02-21T01:47:11Z")
I almost let this one slip by from the police interrogations thread. > [@Police Interrogations](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-interrogations/959024/88): > > I’ve made that argument. I’m about 0 for 8 on it so far. 🙂 @UltraVires is a slow learner. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2022, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/572 "2022-02-21T01:56:44Z")
> [@Police Interrogations](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-interrogations/959024/88): > > I almost let this one slip by from the police interrogations thread. > > > [@Police Interrogations](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-interrogations/959024/88): > > > > I’ve made that argument. I’m about 0 for 8 on it so far. 🙂 > > @UltraVires is a slow learner. - [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/pc4IFIXcDcs/hqdefault.jpg "Bullwinkle's Hat Trick 5") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc4IFIXcDcs) ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2022, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/573 "2022-02-21T01:58:33Z")
Another Ultra Vires thread to avoid: > [@WV black lawmaker gets email with KKK graphic and anti-abortion message...also sues. Is this right?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wv-black-lawmaker-gets-email-with-kkk-graphic-and-anti-abortion-message-also-sues-is-this-right/959845): > > So short version is that the member of the WV House of Delegates, the only black member and that body, she and three other members (each white) introduced a bill to protect abortion rights in WV. It has zero chance of passing. She sues someone who sent her an email with a KKK figure in it. The three other white delegates did not get the same email.But what are the contents? The email’s subject line read, “Your Plan.” The email included a graphic of a robed Ku Klux Klan member, hand raise… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2022, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/574 "2022-02-21T02:56:00Z")
IIRC, his standard procedure is to always advise his defendant to take whatever plea deal the prosecution offers, because the fact that the police arrested them means they they’re almost certainly guilty and the police can almost certainly prove it. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2022, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/575 "2022-02-21T02:59:10Z")
He does seem lately to be perpetrating a particularly prolific pattern of patently pointless posting. I wonder if his work has hit a slow patch, with word finally starting to get around that he has an unusually high number of clients who were charged with jaywalking and, as a result of his efforts, ended up on death row. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2022, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/576 "2022-02-21T03:06:38Z")
He has asked for help brainstorming defense strategies more than once. Not good at all. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2022, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/577 "2022-02-21T03:35:02Z")
I’m half expecting, ‘Will no one recognize how this slanders the good name of the KKK?’. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2022, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/578 "2022-02-21T18:31:37Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > anyone can make a citizen’s arrest based on the smell of pot, and also that a citizen’s arrest gives one the right to search the arrestee’s vehicle In that thread we have citizen’s arrest, and citizen’s search, which got me thinking, we need citizen’s civil asset forfeiture. It was _the car_ that smelled like marijuana, so it can be impounded then sold at auction by a concerned citizen (who gets to keep 80% of the proceeds), even if there isn’t enough evidence to support prosecuting the driver. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2022, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/579 "2022-02-21T18:47:28Z")
If you are arrested for a DUI and nobody is left to drive the car, they can impound the car right then and there. You are charged by the day for impound fees and if you can’t pick it up or give someone else PoA to pick it up for you (because you are incarcerated / can’t post bail), after so many days it will be put up for auction. And if you miss a payment while in jail it will be repo’d. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2022, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/580 "2022-02-21T18:53:52Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > If you are arrested for a DUI and nobody is left to drive the car, they can impound the car right then and there. If you abandon your car on the side of the road, at some point it is going to get impounded/towed. Since in this case the officer knows that it is going to be abandoned (you being in the back of the squad car), there is no reason not to call the tow truck immediately (particularly if the car is in a high-traffic area and a potential hazard). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734.md?page=30)