# Pitting UltraVires **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 22, 2018, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734 "2018-09-22T16:05:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/761 "2022-04-26T14:26:13Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > /s in case there is any confusion there. Is that **s** for…SATAN? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/762 "2022-04-26T14:28:55Z")
if only ending Satan was as easy as typing a “/”. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/763 "2022-04-26T16:03:58Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Is that **s** for…SATAN? [![](https://i.imgflip.com/t93i2.jpg) ](https://i.imgflip.com/t93i2.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/764 "2022-04-26T16:56:48Z")
Don’t slash Satan. You’ll just make him mad. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/765 "2022-04-26T18:17:05Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I note he’s also doing the faux-innocent “Why would Disney care if we don’t teach sex ed to K-3 kids?” question, which ignores both the rather larger issues with what the law will do and why a sizable percentage of the public don’t want Disney to support it. Yeah, he does this a lot. Minimizing whatever evil shit he’s defending by focusing on one tiny aspect and ignoring everything else, and then just flat out ignoring people who point out that there’s a bigger picture. Willful ignorance or trolling? You decide. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/766 "2022-04-26T18:18:51Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Don’t slash Satan. You’ll just make him mad. Unless he’s into archangels. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/767 "2022-04-26T18:22:53Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Willful ignorance or trolling? You decide. At times they are indistinguishable. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/768 "2022-04-26T18:26:13Z")
I find **UV** to be an excellent example of the way Republican apologists have to pivot 180 degrees away from previously-held viewpoints, and then try to convince us that they have “always been at war with Eastasia” (see: the Disney thread, likely countless others). Unfortunately for him, Minitrue doesn’t exist to edit his previous posts on any subjects to make them match currently-accepted propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/769 "2022-04-26T20:27:32Z")
Tired & Cranky just blew UV’s position away with a cite in the “legality of prosecuting someone for doing something…legal in another State” thread, and linked to a very similar thread from three years ago. Amused but not surprised to see UV was arguing the exact opposite position in that thread from what he is saying in the current one. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/770 "2022-04-26T21:08:29Z")
Just to help people out, **Tired\_and\_Cranky** doesn’t explicitly call UV out, or even link to UV’s post, but for those interested, the relevant 3-year old comment from UV is about as damming as described: > [@Can a state punish you for doing something that is legal in another state but not in their state?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-punish-you-for-doing-something-that-is-legal-in-another-state-but-not-in-their-state/833680/25): > > This is the rule: There was a West Virginia case where a man abducted his girlfriend from her workplace in West Virginia and transported her to Ohio where he raped her. West Virginia ruled it had jurisdiction to prosecute the rape (clearly it had jurisdiction for kidnapping) because a substantial amount of an element of the crime: fear or forcible compulsion, occurred in the State of West Virginia. As far as a law against eyebrow plucking, it would be difficult for a state to argue that out … ETA: Good work, team! ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/771 "2022-04-26T21:15:26Z")
I find myself annoyed by the whole thread, as years ago, when Roe was crumbling and states were making laws that violated it, I was told that that was all the anti-choice contingent wanted, to control what happened in their borders. I didn’t think that they’d be happy with that, and raised the possibility that states may make it illegal to go to other states to get abortions, and was shut down on that, it would never, ever happen, and wouldn’t be legal if a state tried. Pretty sure @bricker was a part of that, but I think that @UltraVires was as well. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/772 "2022-04-26T21:24:21Z")
Perhaps you were thinking of this: > [@So what if Roe v. Wade is overturned?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-if-roe-v-wade-is-overturned/921653/199): > > So you concede that this is pure speculation on Slate’s part and should likely back off of the bold statement that women will be prosecuted for murder, even upon leaving the state for an abortion? There is simply no support for that statement. That’s not it at all. There are hypocrites everywhere, but you don’t believe that there are many families and women who do not view abortion as an option? You are also avoiding the question. Given the current state of the law under Casey that holds t… …or similar? And of course there is so much to unpack in just that one post by UV, how he goes from “How dare you worry about the logical next step in the regressive push against reproductive rights!” to (and here I admit I’m having trouble parsing WTF he is on about) “Oh! So you think unreasonable regulations are bad? Well aren’t ALL regulations bad to the really poor? What a hypocrite you are, not advocating for their rights to anarchy!” Obviously those are not actually quotes, just what seems to be the superficial point he’s making, as cover for the subtext of what he’s _really_ saying, which is “Shut up while I take away your rights.” ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/773 "2022-04-26T21:32:24Z")
God… reviewing that thread has added a whole new layer of vile to the **UltraVile**. Like, he’s **UltraVilePlus** … ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/774 "2022-04-26T21:35:14Z")
In his recent ATMB thread, the Eight-Limbed-Freak that shall not be named jumped in with a defense about nonsense notes. When the cephalopod is jumping in on one side (or at least that’s how I read it) you know who’s on the side of the proverbial angels. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/775 "2022-04-26T22:02:40Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > {…} the Eight-Limbed-Freak that shall not be named jumped in with a defense about nonsense notes. {…} [https://pics.me.me/thumb\_its-afraid-egenerator-net-its-afraid-afraid-meme-generator-53451856.png](https://pics.me.me/thumb_its-afraid-egenerator-net-its-afraid-afraid-meme-generator-53451856.png) ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/776 "2022-04-27T03:40:58Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I find myself annoyed by the whole thread, as years ago, when Roe was crumbling and states were making laws that violated it, I was told that that was all the anti-choice contingent wanted, to control what happened in their borders. > > I didn’t think that they’d be happy with that, and raised the possibility that states may make it illegal to go to other states to get abortions, and was shut down on that, it would never, ever happen, and wouldn’t be legal if a state tried. Pretty sure @bricker was a part of that, but I think that @UltraVires was as well. FWIW I don’t think @Bricker was wrong in his legal analysis if it is as you present it. Some years ago the idea that the GOP which got thumped badly in Presidential elections in 2008 and 2012, would win in 2016 with a candidate possessing a very unfavorable popularity rating (the worst of anyone ever elected President), and would get 3 nominees in 4 years, which is off the charts good luck for him (bad luck for others if you’re not on board with Trumpism.) Not only that but that you’d have Anthony Kennedy, long hailed for seeming to care about judicial moderation, time his retirement basically for the moment Trump took over, guaranteeing he would be replaced by someone far more extreme than himself. This would be on top of Antonin Scalia’s seat being held open for the entire last year of Obama’s Presidency specifically to give it to the theoretical at the time next Republican President (Scalia’s seat being conservative held didn’t in itself change much, though–Kennedy’s really did.) Then RBG dying late in Trump’s term was another bit of bad fortune. If the three justices that replaced Scalia, Kennedy and RBG were all even “only” as conservative as say, John Roberts, such things would still frankly be highly unlikely. But Gorsuch is extremely far right on many issues, more so than any other justice barring Thomas who basically almost only votes for Republican positions. Kavanaugh is a little harder to pen down, but on the average is a good nudge to the right of Roberts, Barrett is also a little harder to entirely pen down like a Gorsuch/Alito/Thomas, but she is a nudge to the right of Kavanaugh. All are to the right of Anthony Kennedy and RBG. I think most reasonable Supreme Court watchers back in say 2014 probably couldn’t be expected to reasonably imagine a worse four year stretch for Democratic Supreme Court fortunes than 2017-2020, when you literally had the court redefined for a generation to be a far right court, the most regressive and far-right court we’ve had since the Lochner court (1890-1937.) I can’t speak for how Bricker would **feel** about such developments, but I think it’s worth pointing out if he looked at our court c. 2014 and concluded laws like Texas SB8 and other shitbag shenanigans would be hilariously impossible, he would be on firm ground back at that time. We are in a real shitty era for the courts that I think few people expected, some people obviously dreamed/hoped for it. Now, if anyone seriously argued that the pro-life movement, in a post-Roe environment, would be content to let California / New York / Illinois et al. continue abortions uncontested, that is intellectually dishonest. The pro-life movement holds abortion to be no different, morally, than murder. It is not rationally to assume people who think that way are going to “be okay” with it just because it occurs in a blue state. However under our political / judicial system just 5 years ago, their prospects for being able to go after it outside of red bastions was not realistic, that has now changed. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/777 "2022-04-27T07:24:42Z")
Confession time: > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > (the worst of anyone ever elected President), and would get 3 nominees in 4 years, which is off the charts good luck for him (bad luck for others if you’re not on board with Trumpism.) Not only that but that you’d have Anthony Kennedy, long hailed for seeming to care about judicial moderation, time his retirement basically for the moment Trump took over, guaranteeing he would be replaced by someone far more extreme than himself. This would be on top of Antonin Scalia’s seat being held open for the entire last year of Obama’s Presidency specifically to give it to the theoretical at the time next Republican President (Scalia’s seat being conservative held didn’t in itself change much, though–Kennedy’s really did.) Then RBG dying late in Trump’s term was another bit of bad fortune. If the three justices that replaced Scalia, Kennedy and RBG were all even “only” as conservative as say, John Roberts, such things would still frankly be highly unlikely. But Gorsuch is extremely far right on many issues, more so than any other justice barring Thomas who basically almost only votes for Republican positions. Kavanaugh is a little harder to pen down, but on the average is a good nudge to the right of Roberts, Barrett is also a little harder to entirely pen down like a Gorsuch/Alito/Thomas, but she is a nudge to the right of Kavanaugh. All are to the right of Anthony Kennedy and RBG. I can’t read this passage and NOT have the words _The Pelican Brief_ echo in my mind, like a song with abhorrent lyrics and a really catchy tune. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/778 "2022-04-27T07:50:03Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > {…} Now, if anyone seriously argued that the pro-life movement, in a post-Roe environment, would be content to let California / New York / Illinois et al. continue abortions uncontested, that is intellectually dishonest. {…} Oh, do you mean the folks that constantly said we should leave this issue to be decided by the individual states and the party that constantly complains about the Federal government usurping State rights? Are those the intellectually dishonest people here? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/779 "2022-04-27T12:51:23Z")
Yes, if people have said that they are likely not being honest. I am pro-life FWIW and I would not be content to have the blue states continue practicing abortions without challenging it, and have never said otherwise. I’m also not in favor of Roe being overturned, which probably sounds paradoxical due to my philosophical pro-life stance, but I tend to think Roe is a messy but probably necessary judicial ruling given other constitutional concerns. I also don’t think the approach the red states seem to want to take the moment Roe is overturned is actually a rational way to approach the abortion issue. I favor an approach that gives people incentives and education to obtain abortions much less frequently. Abortion prohibition was the default in the law for most of Western history, it never was a particularly effective regime, and the lessons of practicality should mean something when it comes to serious policy making. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/780 "2022-04-27T13:39:58Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I favor an approach that gives people incentives and education to obtain abortions much less frequently. I can totally get behind education. But what sort of incentives would you want to offer for pregnancy? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734.md?page=40)