# Pitting UltraVires **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 22, 2018, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734 "2018-09-22T16:05:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/141 "2019-01-30T04:06:35Z")
[Here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21459536&postcount=16)he gives what seems like reasonable advice, for what it’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/142 "2019-04-18T20:42:26Z")
West Virginia’s dumbest lawyer has little to no understanding about Russian interference in the 2016 election. > [@UltraVires](#): > > Serious question. What legal or moral wrong is there is knowing that a foreign country is on your side in a presidential election and being happy that they are on your side? Russia was rooting for Trump and that made Trump smile. What’s wrong with that? His ignorance, however, is not going to prevent him from sharing his hot takes. > [@UltraVires](#): > > I keep seeing “attack” “destabilize” “cause distrust” “interfered” etc. My understanding was that the Russians just put out garbage on Facebook and other social media, things that if done by Americans would have been okay. > > Those words seem to be hyperbole unless I am mistaken about what the Russians actually did. Are foreigners not allowed to advocate in U.S. elections or just the governments themselves? Can a Russian on vacation make a speech in a public park about an upcoming election? Can he take out a Facebook ad? Pro tip **UltraVires** , whenever you find yourself saying, “Unless I’m mistaken…” you should stop immediately and figure out the what the facts are. Of course you’re mistaken you fucking nit wit. You are mistaken almost all the time so it should not come as a shock to you. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/143 "2019-04-18T21:07:42Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Let me ask it another way. Let’s say that I work for Pepsi and I want more people to buy Pepsi instead of Coke. If I, as an American working for Pepsi, did absolutely everything the Russians did in 2016, except that my message was “Coke sucks, drink Pepsi” instead of “Clinton sucks, vote Trump” would I have violated any laws? When Pepsi tries to breach the computers of every county government in Florida let me know you fucking dumb ass. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/144 "2019-04-18T21:15:54Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > West Virginia’s dumbest lawyer has little to no understanding about Russian interference in the 2016 election. Just what I came here to post. I was actually going to put it in the Trolls R Us thread but I suppose this keeps all the stupidity from our resident dumbass in one place. Apparently the fact that illegal Russian election meddling ramped up to unprecedented levels in 2016 – and that they have been found to be doing the same thing in the UK and elsewhere in western democracies with the specific goal of destabilizing them – is to this driveling imbecile the exact equivalent of just being “on Trump’s side”. There’s actually no “apparently” about it – that’s literally what the feeble-brained twit actually said. Hey, West Virginia’s dumbest lawyer, back in 2008 I wanted to buy a $20 “Obama '08” baseball cap online. I could not. It would be considered a campaign contribution, and it was illegal for me, as a non-American, to engage in such electioneering. But you think it’s just fine for a veritable army of Russian agents to be working to skew the national presidential election results in every possible way they could. Your stupidity is astounding. Maybe the fact that the Russians were doing it because they want to see the US going down the toilet as a world power is what makes it OK for you? Are you willfully a traitor or are you just that unfathomably dumb? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/145 "2019-04-18T21:41:54Z")
And don’t forget that not only were the Russians committing a multitude of crimes, they were doing so at Trump’s request. If it were just the Russians, you could say “well, what do you want us to do about it, start a war?”. But the conspirators inside the US, them we can do something about. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/146 "2019-04-18T21:46:04Z")
And, of course, in a court filing, the Russians argued that the venue was incorrect because they consider what they did to be an act of war. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/147 "2019-04-18T21:54:55Z")
Reading that thread, he doesn’t just come across as an idiot, which he is of course. He practically comes across as a traitor to me. I mean, whose side are you on, Russia’s or the US? Also, **UV** , lots of things are illegal if foreigners to then that aren’t illegal if Americans do them, especially related to campaigns. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/148 "2019-04-18T21:58:53Z")
More from that thread > [@UltraVires](#): > > Further, it was well known during the 2016 election that the Russians and more particularly Putin supported Trump. If anything, that hurt him. > > How does a foreign government expressing its views in our elections constitute any of those words? The voters can take that support into account when they make their choices and vote accordingly. Oh, Russian is for Trump, but France and the UK are really pushing for Hillary? Well, I don’t like the Russians, but I do like the Brits, so my vote is for Hillary. > > What’s wrong with that? This whole investigation is all because Putin, in passing, just happened to mentioned he liked Trump. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/149 "2019-04-19T03:04:33Z")
I think he might meet the literal definition of retarded. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/150 "2019-04-19T05:39:58Z")
So, attacking America at our judo chop spots is rubbing up on our biases, suspicions, and mistrust, the grim spectrum from disdain to hatred. Told the Bernie Bros how Hillary cheated them out of supreme power, told white working class guys that black/brown people were coming for their jobs and their daughters. Didn’t say much of anything to rich folks. I mean, sure, preach to the choir but why bother? Oldest trick in the book, really, happened to the Grand Vizier of Akkad (2019 BCE), who was summarily dismissed. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/151 "2019-04-19T11:35:48Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Reading that thread, he doesn’t just come across as an idiot, which he is of course. He practically comes across as a traitor to me. I mean, whose side are you on, Russia’s or the US? > > Also, **UV** , lots of things are illegal if foreigners to then that aren’t illegal if Americans do them, especially related to campaigns. “Better Russian than a Democrat.” ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/152 "2019-04-19T12:02:54Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And don’t forget that not only were the Russians committing a multitude of crimes, they were doing so at Trump’s request. I’m going to need a cite for the fact that it was at Trump’s request. It’s not like there is video of him publicly asking the Russians to hack the Democrats. If there were, then certainly the GOP would turn against him. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/153 "2019-04-19T12:16:03Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I’m going to need a cite for the fact that it was at Trump’s request. It’s not like there is video of him publicly asking the Russians to hack the Democrats. If there were, then certainly the GOP would turn against him. What? You think Trump is going to get up in front of a bunch of reporters and say to the Russians to please hack the email of a former senator and secretary of state? That’s not how these things work. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/154 "2019-04-19T14:44:46Z")
“I’m not a Russian plant…I’m just auditioning for the job”. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/155 "2019-04-19T19:20:19Z")
I hope for his sake that the North Carolina Bar doesn’t read the dope > [@UltraVires](#): > > But to expand on the hypo, let’s say that the cop from the neighboring town thought the cop from my town was a bad guy and wanted secretly for me to win my case so I discussed strategy with him. Let’s further say that objectively the neighboring cop is even more corrupt than the cop in my town. > > Is it unethical to simply talk to the neighboring cop? I’m not saying that I will support his corrupt practices, but I will take his help. > > Maybe that does skirt some lines somewhere, but as I keep saying, it is not something where I am calling for heads on pikes. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/156 "2019-04-19T20:11:09Z")
> [@](#): > > What is wrong with allying with someone who you would otherwise hate for the limited purpose of accomplishing a specific goal? Again, is it because they are foreigners? It must be because if an American group had done exactly what the Russians did, and Trump allied with them, there would not be an issue. This terrible lawyer is literally saying that it is smart to get the Russians working for your campaign. Keep in mind Russians are under indictment for what they did in 2016, and this idiot thinks it is smart to work with those criminals. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/157 "2019-04-19T20:23:45Z")
**Mentally retarded WV lawyer** : But, are you saying it’s wrong and illegal because it was done by foreigners? **kenobi 65** , with saint-like patience: Yes, that’s definitely part of it. Foreign entities and nationals can’t do that. **Mentally retarded WV lawyer** : But, what if it was done by the NRA or an American citizen? Would that make any difference. **kenobi 65** , with saint-like patience: Yes, because they aren’t foreign entities. It makes a difference. **Mentally retarded WV lawyer** : I understand that rules can be different for citizens vs. non-citizens. Anyway, is was it wrong just because it’s a foreign government? **kenobi 65** , losing some saintl-like patience: Yes, godammit! Foreigners can’t do that! I’m out of here, talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. **Mentally retarded WV lawyer** : But, is it wrong because it was a foreign government? Why can’t they interfere with our elections, just because they are foreign? **RitterSport** , likes talking to brick walls: Yes! As has been explained over and over, they can’t do that because election laws say that foreign entities can’t do that. Now I’m waiting with bated breath for him to ask, “would it be OK if it was a citizen? Does it matter that it was a foreign actor?” ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/158 "2019-04-19T22:53:05Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Now I’m waiting with bated breath for him to ask, “would it be OK if it was a citizen? Does it matter that it was a foreign actor?” As long as it’s not Gerard Depardieu. I hate that guy. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/159 "2019-04-19T23:04:55Z")
I posted this in another thread, but Here’s a hypothetical for you UV. Suppose Justin Trudeau or Angela Merkel made a public speech detailing Trump’s horribleness and urging all good Americans to vote against him. Would that be OK with you? Would it be the same situation if Barack Obama or Elizabeth Warren made the exact same speech? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2019, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734/160 "2019-04-20T00:04:19Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I posted this in another thread, but > > Here’s a hypothetical for you UV. Suppose Justin Trudeau or Angela Merkel made a public speech detailing Trump’s horribleness and urging all good Americans to vote against him. > > Would that be OK with you? Would it be the same situation if Barack Obama or Elizabeth Warren made the exact same speech? I see that **UV** has not responded, nor posted over there recently, presumably because his fevered brain needs a rest after trying so hard – and failing – to understand this extremely difficult question of why a swarm of Russian trolls deluging social media with disinformation campaigns in support of Trump, hacking the DNC, injecting malware into DNC computers, hacking state and county agencies, and offering every possible assistance to the Trump campaign, is in any way different from the Russians liking Trump and hoping that he wins. What you’ve asked is just another example of the kind of incredibly nuanced question that **UV** has been struggling with in that thread, the kind that would challenge even a brain of Einstein’s caliber, so it’s no wonder that **UV** is probably lying down with an ice pack over his throbbing forehead until he recovers from the mental exertion. > [@Ravenman](#): > > This terrible lawyer is literally saying that it is smart to get the Russians working for your campaign. > > Keep in mind Russians are under indictment for what they did in 2016, and this idiot thinks it is smart to work with those criminals. The ideal situation I’m picturing is that more Russians are indicted for meddling in the 2020 election, and through some quirk of fate, **UltraVires** becomes their defense lawyer. I believe this to be a highly appropriate situation considering how much deep thought **UV** has put into the matter, and one that will no doubt lead to a just outcome in which the Russians, nominally facing five years’ imprisonment, will instead get the death penalty. Though I suspect by the time it’s over **UV** will need that ice pack again to cool the mighty overheated brain. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-ultravires/821734.md?page=9)