# Pittsburgh Always Gets A Bad Wrap. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 3, 2003, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pittsburgh-always-gets-a-bad-wrap/211064 "2003-11-03T01:00:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![BlackNGold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BlackNGold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackNGold)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pittsburgh-always-gets-a-bad-wrap/211064/81 "2003-11-20T02:30:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SenorBeef \* > \*\*it seems that everyone intentionally stops in the middle of the street when they have a red light, so that the traffic going the other way can’t do the same thing. So it’ll be green and the traffic can’t go anywhere because the entire intersection is blocked by the crossing traffic. \*\* **SenorBeef** Yes, that’s fairly common here. I intentionally avoid doing this. Pisses us off as much as the out-of-towners. But calm down. Pittsburgh drivers are no worse than any others, once you learn the rules. 1- The Pittsburgh Left. Oncoming traffic will expect that you yield one car to go left before you go straight at a green light. You can violate this rule, but you must be “creeping” at the opposing yellow to make sure the other driver knows you don’t intend to yield. 2- Yes, we slow down to go through tunnels. Get used to it. I know it’s irrational, but I find myself doing the same thing no matter where I’m driving. Not because I’m afraid of “Tunnel Monsters”, but because I expect _the driver in front of me_ to do so too. 3- Agressive driving. You mentioned that one person cut you off pulling out. What, they don’t have assholes where you come from? In my experience, the drivers here are extremely timid. Often at a merge, I will be astounded at the “holes” in traffic that people let pass by. All in all, I really like my city. I’ve had four primary residences, all within Allegheny county. Would never trade the 2 years I lived on Polish Hill for anything. I look forward to meeting other Pittsburgh Dopers at some point. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pittsburgh-always-gets-a-bad-wrap/211064/82 "2003-11-20T03:50:03Z")
Okay, wait, DoubleJ, I’m confused. I think I’m being whooshed (or is that “whoorshed” rahnd here?). > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DoubleJ \* > …you probably saw at least one person make a left turn the instant the light turned green – that one tends to throw newcomers. … Are you talking about the “courtesy left,” where the first person in a line of people going straight through the intersection waits so that someone can turn left from the opposing direction? I was born here, but grew up in St. Louis, went to grad school in Connecticut, drove in Boston often enough, and never even heard of the courtesy left until I returned to Pittsburgh. Giving the courtesy left happens more here than anywhere I’ve seen. I must be being whoorshed. > [@](#): > > You may have also run into some trouble if you weren’t engaged in the area’s vehicular hobby of speeding. Those signs on the side of the road are actually the _lower_ limit. Speeding? Here? You must not commute. How can you speed when you are sitting in traffic? Seriously, when I first got to Connecticut, I was passed on the highway by a friggin’ milk truck. I got good at taking the s-curves through Hartford at 75 mph. Did you move here from Erie? Ooops, I think you whooshed me again. > [@](#): > > Don’t forget that bicycles are immune to traffic laws here, so if you see one coming up on a red light don’t expect him to stop, especially if you’re downtown. They get all indignant when you presume to have the right of way – they’re being all eco-friendly or some shit. Here you are right - bicyclists and pedestrians have no problem placing themselves in front of traffic, and living to tell the tale regularly. Which speaks to the good driving here, rather than bad. If non-drivers pulled the shit they do here in the other places I’ve driven, there’d be a lot fewer non-drivers. In fact, Pittsburgh has the highest rate of people who jog through the intersection _until_ they get in front of your car, as if they are establishing themselves like a basketball player ready to take the charge. > [@](#): > > You also may not know, but in cars sold here turn signals are optional extras, judging by the number of cars that use them, and the bulbs are very expensive, since most of the time they only get flashed once or twice on a lane change. Keeps you on your toes. No complacency here! Try driving in Boston. Seriously. There are places there they haven’t even bothered to put the lines between lanes on the road. What’s a rotary, I asked innocently, my first time there. In high school in St. Louis, I laughed my ass off when one of the driver’s ed videos they showed had a person switching lanes without signaling. This was not a “don’t be this person” moment, either. > [@](#): > > I’m guessing you’re also confused by the stop signs at the end of some of the on-ramps here. Turns out a sign is much less expensive than building a merge lane. And your engine can probably rev up to at least 5500 rpm anyway, so you’ll be up to speed soon enough. If the tires ain’t squealing, you’re not trying hard enough. Perhaps, but St. Louis was the best place I’ve seen (followed closely by Kansas City) for having the cloverleaf interchanges where the entrance and exit lanes _are the same fucking lanes_! In seriousness, if there are drivers who find the driving in Pittsburgh to be challenging or threatening, they simply should not be driving. Except on Sunday. With a phone book under their ass. Driving around here is about as dangerous and challenging as the Auto Race at Kennywood. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pittsburgh-always-gets-a-bad-wrap/211064/83 "2003-11-20T07:39:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BlackNGold \* > \*\* > 3- Agressive driving. You mentioned that one person cut you off pulling out. What, they don’t have assholes where you come from? In my experience, the drivers here are extremely timid. Often at a merge, I will be astounded at the “holes” in traffic that people let pass by. \*\* No, no, it wasn’t just a cut off - it was a guy trying to squeeze between me and a car I was traveling behind by like 10 feet on a completely otherwise empty road. It was just insane. If the brakes had been, say, 20% less efficient, I probably would’ve hit the guy. \*\* [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pittsburgh-always-gets-a-bad-wrap/211064/84 "2003-11-20T13:09:49Z")
I have driven around a number of cities … and Pittsburgh has the most tame drivers anywhere. Driving in Atlanta has instilled quite a few bad habits in me anb I find when I am back in Pgh that I need to unlearn them VERY quickly. Nobody there (OK, very, very few, compared to Atl.) goes 80 when the speed limit goes 55 and people actually let you over when your lane ends! I am humming along getting ready to take my spot and every time it seems there is some smilin yinzer waving me in, where I was ready to take the spot – whether or not it was being offered. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pittsburgh-always-gets-a-bad-wrap/211064/85 "2003-11-20T23:29:43Z")
**DoubleJ** , as one non-social single in the 'Burgh to another, how _you_ doing? CJ ---
**Author:** ![DoubleJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@DoubleJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoubleJ)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pittsburgh-always-gets-a-bad-wrap/211064/86 "2003-11-21T17:22:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hentor the Barbarian \* > Are you talking about the “courtesy left,” where the first person in a line of people going straight through the intersection waits so that someone can turn left from the opposing direction? I was born here, but grew up in St. Louis, went to grad school in Connecticut, drove in Boston often enough, and never even heard of the courtesy left until I returned to Pittsburgh. Giving the courtesy left happens more here than anywhere I’ve seen. I must be being whoorshed. Not sure what you’re asking here. I said I’ve seen the “courtesy left” (as you call it) in Pittsburgh and not where I’m from in NE Ohio. And it’s not a courtesy all of the time – I’ve seen more than a few drivers pull halfway into the intersection before the light even goes to a four-way red. So I think you just agreed with me. > [@](#): > > Speeding? Here? You must not commute. How can you speed when you are sitting in traffic? Seriously, when I first got to Connecticut, I was passed on the highway by a friggin’ milk truck. I got good at taking the s-curves through Hartford at 75 mph. Did you move here from Erie? Ooops, I think you whooshed me again. Yeah, I’m fortunate enough to not come into town on 28; I live in Shadyside (ooooh, how wannabe trendy of me). Any time other than rush hour though, and my natural case of podius plumbumus just makes me blend right in. > [@](#): > > Here you are right - bicyclists and pedestrians have no problem placing themselves in front of traffic, and living to tell the tale regularly. Which speaks to the good driving here, rather than bad. If non-drivers pulled the shit they do here in the other places I’ve driven, there’d be a lot fewer non-drivers. True. I think it’s because here people are always waiting for somebody else to do something stupid, so drivers are always on their toes. > [@](#): > > Try driving in Boston. In the interest of fairness I should, but I’ll take a pass. I’ve heard enough horror stories to make me glad I drive here and not there. > [@](#): > > Perhaps, but St. Louis was the best place I’ve seen (followed closely by Kansas City) for having the cloverleaf interchanges where the entrance and exit lanes _are the same fucking lanes_! Oh, those suck. There’s one non-cloverleaf instance of that near Robinson Town Center for the route 30 off-ramp, and I’m amazed there aren’t accidents there every day. > [@](#): > > In seriousness, if there are drivers who find the driving in Pittsburgh to be challenging or threatening, they simply should not be driving. Except on Sunday. But then they’d miss the Stillers! Oh wait, I said that like it’s a bad thing 😛 And finally: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Siege_ > DoubleJ, as one non-social single in the 'Burgh to another, how _you_ doing? Answer is dependant on whether you’re a straight female 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pittsburgh-always-gets-a-bad-wrap/211064/87 "2003-11-21T17:23:20Z")
I am. Are you a straight male? 🙂 back at you! CJ ---
**Author:** ![DoubleJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@DoubleJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoubleJ)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pittsburgh-always-gets-a-bad-wrap/211064/88 "2003-11-21T17:23:53Z")
One thing I forgot to add: Was there ever a decision on whether there was going to be a Light-Up Night gathering? ---
**Author:** ![DoubleJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@DoubleJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoubleJ)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pittsburgh-always-gets-a-bad-wrap/211064/89 "2003-11-21T17:25:05Z")
Damn, that reply showed up fast. Yes I am. ---
**Author:** ![TeaElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@TeaElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaElle)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pittsburgh-always-gets-a-bad-wrap/211064/90 "2003-11-21T20:04:30Z")
For really stupid entrance-exit ramp tricks, try the Greentree entrance/exit on the inbound side of the Parkway West. I’m not talking about the entrance ramp over near Olive Garden, but the one further down off of Poplar Street, near that testing laboratory and the Greentree fire station. I hated that entrance, with it’s stop sign, with all my heart. That stupid ramp configuration and trying to merge over to the left to get onto the outbound Liberty Bridge after entering from Seventh Avenue are about the only things I _don’t_ miss about the 'Burgh. ☹ Have fun tonight at the Light Up! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pittsburgh-always-gets-a-bad-wrap/211064/91 "2003-11-21T20:38:17Z")
The bad part about driving in Pittsburgh is the roads themselves-PennDOT sucks. That and parking is a nightmare. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Mad\_Hermit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5ac83/32.png) [@The\_Mad\_Hermit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Mad_Hermit)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pittsburgh-always-gets-a-bad-wrap/211064/92 "2003-11-21T21:07:20Z")
Is it possible with all the high water? I heard that Light Up Night will go on, but the fireworks are moved from the river and some things are closed. I can’t make it anyway, so I hope those who do have a good time. ---
**Author:** ![DoubleJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@DoubleJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoubleJ)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pittsburgh-always-gets-a-bad-wrap/211064/93 "2003-11-21T21:16:46Z")
The high water shouldn’t be too big of a problem – the 10th St Bypass under the bridges was almost dry again as I was driving in this morning – I just don’t know if anyone else is going. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pittsburgh-always-gets-a-bad-wrap/211064/94 "2003-11-21T22:54:46Z")
Unfortunately can’t go. Am sick with the bronchitis. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pittsburgh-always-gets-a-bad-wrap/211064.md?page=4)