# Pixar's Brave...What are your first impressions? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 13, 2012, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pixars-brave-what-are-your-first-impressions/621737 "2012-05-13T00:11:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pixars-brave-what-are-your-first-impressions/621737/81 "2012-06-25T19:14:26Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > I find it interesting that a movie that is so much about the female experience…your relationship to your mother (and less to your father), the burden of female roles, what it means to be female, how much we as a society believe women are property to be controlled, is seen as shallow theming. You know a lot of people thought the predominantly-male Cars was shallow too. :rolleyes: Brave being based around females has \*\*nothing \*\*to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pixars-brave-what-are-your-first-impressions/621737/82 "2012-06-25T19:25:46Z")
Yeah you’re going to have a hard time convincing me that I’m not grokking feminist themes. If I’d never seen a trailer I probably would have liked the film more, but I still would have had some problems with it. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pixars-brave-what-are-your-first-impressions/621737/83 "2012-06-25T20:03:30Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Ina time when the ability of women all over the world are having their ability to create their own destiny challenged, it seems like a very powerful theme. I think a lot of people have a problem because this wasn’t a story where a girl just goes out and kicks ass in a tomboyish fashion. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pixars-brave-what-are-your-first-impressions/621737/84 "2012-06-25T21:18:12Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > You know a lot of people thought the predominantly-male Cars was shallow too. :rolleyes: > > Brave being based around females has \*\*nothing \*\*to do with it. Was cars about men’s issues? Was it about the struggle men have to find their place in a society that pigeon holes them? If it wasnt, then that is moot. I think the theme of Cars, discovering that we are interconnected and not being a self absorbed jackass, was rather powerful. It actually wasn’t that different as a theme than Up…Up took the same theme and gave it more emotional punch, but it wasn’t the theme that wasn’t powerful in Cars. It was that the filmmakers didn’t choose to tear at heart strings. I’m not sure that Monsters Inc, which is a great and very enjoyable movie, had a very powerful theme, but I haven’t really thought about it other than in the fun movie sense. Unlike Wall-E, which was all message. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pixars-brave-what-are-your-first-impressions/621737/85 "2012-06-25T22:07:59Z")
Actually the mother-daughter relationship was the best part of the movie for me. I just didn’t think they did enough to flesh it out. And I say that as neither a mother nor a daughter (but living with one of each). ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pixars-brave-what-are-your-first-impressions/621737/86 "2012-06-25T22:11:30Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Actually the mother-daughter relationship was the best part of the movie for me. I just didn’t think they did enough to flesh it out. And I say that as neither a mother nor a daughter (but living with one of each). Certainly they weren’t as heavy handed in pulling out the emotional heartstrings as Up or Wall-E. However, I’m not sure if that is the same as the theme not being powerful. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pixars-brave-what-are-your-first-impressions/621737/87 "2012-06-25T22:17:38Z")
I don’t know what could have been done to flesh it out further. The movie was almost exclusively about the mother daughter relationship, and I feel like the did a great job of developing a complex and complicated relationship that balanced the adolescent need for freedom, the paternal need to make sure your child is fully prepared to live their own life, and the love/hate between parent and child at that age. Even the father character mainly served to throw the mother daughter relationship into relief. I feel like a lot of the criticism is coming from dissonance between the movie that was expected and the very different movie that was presented. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pixars-brave-what-are-your-first-impressions/621737/88 "2012-06-26T00:31:27Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Was cars about men’s issues? Was it about the struggle men have to find their place in a society that pigeon holes them? If it wasnt, then that is moot. Whether or not my example is moot doesn’t make your point any more relevant. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pixars-brave-what-are-your-first-impressions/621737/89 "2012-06-26T01:35:45Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > I feel like a lot of the criticism is coming from dissonance between the movie that was expected and the very different movie that was presented. Did you watch the same trailers I did? They have only themselves to blame for any dissonance. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pixars-brave-what-are-your-first-impressions/621737/90 "2012-06-26T01:43:28Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Did you watch the same trailers I did? They have only themselves to blame for any dissonance. I saw several of the trailers, and I saw no dissonance. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pixars-brave-what-are-your-first-impressions/621737/91 "2012-06-26T02:02:29Z")
Is the title really a good one? I mean, it’s not really about a little girl being brave, is it? ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pixars-brave-what-are-your-first-impressions/621737/92 "2012-06-26T02:34:29Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > Is the title really a good one? I mean, it’s not really about a little girl being brave, is it? Several reviewers/critiques have mentioned that the working title or original title was “The Bear and The Bow” but I suppose they thought that was too wordy? I think it would have fit a little better than Brave, personally. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pixars-brave-what-are-your-first-impressions/621737/93 "2012-06-26T02:35:37Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > My first impression is this: > > In the early days of computer animation, everyone agreed that the hardest thing to get right was hair. > > So I get the impression they were thinking “We can do hair now! Let’s do a shitload of hair! Hair as far as the eye can see!” Also, the above is much better if you read it out loud in King Fergus’s “I’m pretending to be Merida” accent. :D:D:D ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pixars-brave-what-are-your-first-impressions/621737/94 "2012-06-26T03:50:13Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Most of the trailers seem to centre around the family life, but I think the majority of the story will actually be about Merida and the bear. I expect it to have a few left field ideas like _UP_ did. I saw it. I really liked it. Generally speaking it’s a story about a mothers love. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pixars-brave-what-are-your-first-impressions/621737/95 "2012-06-26T04:39:29Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Did you watch the same trailers I did? They have only themselves to blame for any dissonance. As was noted early in this thread, Pixar trailers are usually duds, this one less than many others. At least their trailers are not spoilers. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pixars-brave-what-are-your-first-impressions/621737/96 "2012-06-26T12:18:42Z")
1.) I liked it. I’m a little surprised about the negative reactions. Even MilliCal and Pepper Mill (my daughter and wife), who insisted on going opening night, were lukewarm about it. They were expecting “more” 2.) They didn’t really give the story away in the many trailers and promos, although It was pretty clear to me that the three little brothers were going to get turned into bears. The promos showing three little brothers and three cute little bears made that perfectly obvious. But I didn’t foresee the mom’s metamorphosis, until the cottage scene. 3.) The scene with the witch was beautifully done. And I liked the later “answering machine” joke about “going to Wicker Man”. The Pixar guys have a wickedly dark side 4.) It is apparently OK to show Bare Butts in Disney/pixar now. As long as they’re male butts, and there’s no frontal 5.) The queen’s womanservant had the best case of “Chekhov’s Cleavage” that I’ve seen in a long time. The first cleavage joke from Disney I can recall since _Roger Rabbit_, although more reminiscent of _Black Cauldron_. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pixars-brave-what-are-your-first-impressions/621737/97 "2012-06-26T14:15:14Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > Whether or not my example is moot doesn’t make your point any more relevant. That because a movie deals with “gender (specifically female) themes” those themes aren’t perceived as deep or as important as other themes in Pixar movies? I still think that is a very relevant point to be making here. Your response was that Cars had male characters. What is the connection? Do you see the themes of Cars as being gender (specifically male) themed? How so? And if so, why are those themes less worthy than the themes in Up or Wall-E or Toy Story? Make a pertinent rebuttal to the point, not what I’m perceiving as a non sequitur. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pixars-brave-what-are-your-first-impressions/621737/98 "2012-06-26T16:48:29Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > 4.) It is apparently OK to show Bare Butts in Disney/pixar now. As long as they’re male butts, and there’s no frontal. Disney been OK with nudity since _Fantasia_. [This bit of the Pastoral](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BzfBwyjkYM) has naked male cherub butt and topless female centaurs (although they oddly lack nipples). ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pixars-brave-what-are-your-first-impressions/621737/99 "2012-06-26T17:14:55Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > Disney been OK with nudity since _Fantasia_. [This bit of the Pastoral](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BzfBwyjkYM) has naked male cherub butt and topless female centaurs (although they oddly lack nipples). Yes. as i’ve observed in the past, you can only have nipples if you’re evil (Look at the _Night on Bare Mountain_ sequence, with its naked harpies). But this is different from Fantasia – we not only have bare little boy butts, but big Scottiosh Men, too (After being teased with the “Feast your eyes!” line, they actually _DO_ let us see them). ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pixars-brave-what-are-your-first-impressions/621737/100 "2012-06-26T18:44:05Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > That because a movie deals with “gender (specifically female) themes” those themes aren’t perceived as deep or as important as other themes in Pixar movies? I still think that is a very relevant point to be making here. Your response was that Cars had male characters. What is the connection? Do you see the themes of Cars as being gender (specifically male) themed? How so? And if so, why are those themes less worthy than the themes in Up or Wall-E or Toy Story? Make a pertinent rebuttal to the point, not what I’m perceiving as a non sequitur. You’re hung up on the analogy. My rebuttle was in my first post: it’s a giant leap in logic to suggest people only didn’t like Brave _because_ it dealt with female themes, and it’s frankly insulting to anyone who didn’t like the movie to make such an assumption. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pixars-brave-what-are-your-first-impressions/621737.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pixars-brave-what-are-your-first-impressions/621737.md?page=6)