# Pizza Styles: New York, St. Louis, Chicago, what is the difference? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 12, 2005, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pizza-styles-new-york-st-louis-chicago-what-is-the-difference/330722 "2005-11-12T14:36:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pizza-styles-new-york-st-louis-chicago-what-is-the-difference/330722/21 "2005-11-13T12:40:01Z")
> [@PerditaX](#): > > As for the best pizza in St. Louis, many people swear by Imo’s, but I always preferred Two Nice Guys, or (before they folded) Parente’s. IMO’SSSSSSSSS!!! That’s what I’ve tried to remember. My parents used to take me there in Saint Louis when I was a kid. I can’t name anything in particular about it, but at the time I thought it was great. It’s a chain, right? ---
**Author:** ![Operation\_Ripper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/34f0e0/32.png) [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pizza-styles-new-york-st-louis-chicago-what-is-the-difference/330722/22 "2005-11-13T13:03:34Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > The difference is that every pizza from outside Chicago just plain sucks. Order a deep dish from Pizzeria Uno or Due and then wonder how you ever ate anything else. (Not that I am biased or anything!) Ate at Due back in July, wasn’t all that. Wasn’t bad, but wasn’t that great, my host, a native Chicagoan, acknowledged as much and was disappointed. Later took me to another Chicago pizza legend, Giordano’s, with similar results. Both featured giant deep-dish pizzas, but their size was about their best feature. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pizza-styles-new-york-st-louis-chicago-what-is-the-difference/330722/23 "2005-11-13T14:42:16Z")
I’m not a big fan of Pizzaria Uno/Due. I think they are more hype than anything else. I feel bad for tourists who’s only experience with Chicago Style is Uno’s. Gimme Lou Malnatti’s or Giordano’s instead, though I’d avoid the sausage at Lou’s unless you _really_ like sausage. ---
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pizza-styles-new-york-st-louis-chicago-what-is-the-difference/330722/24 "2005-11-13T16:47:51Z")
here in Philadelphia, the closest one can come to what you are describing as “St. Louis Pizza” is [Tacconelli’s](http://philadelphia.citysearch.com/profile/8978738/philadelphia_pa/tacconelli_s_pizza.html). I wonder if anyone from St. Louis has been here to compare, but I have not yet had a 'za that tops Tacconelli’s. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pizza-styles-new-york-st-louis-chicago-what-is-the-difference/330722/25 "2005-11-13T17:05:53Z")
Isn’t it a prerequisite of Chicago style that its made with sourdough crust? New York has a type of thick crust pizza, called “Sicillian” that is cut in squares. It has the same cheese/sauce/spice ratios as a normal New York pie though. Overall I think traditional Chicago style is too greasy and cheesy, not as bite-able and crisp, but then, I’m biased as a native New Yorker. Except that Lombardi’s doesn’t have the best pizza in New York (I’ve had good experiences but by all reports it can be hit or miss) … I’d have to go with DiFara’s in Midwood. 🙂 “California style” pizza was pioneered, I believe, by uber-chef Wolfgang Puck. I actually like it but it is definitely another animal. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pizza-styles-new-york-st-louis-chicago-what-is-the-difference/330722/26 "2005-11-13T20:38:25Z")
> [@Hello Again](#): > > Isn’t it a prerequisite of Chicago style that its made with sourdough crust? Nah. Gino’s East uses a crust with corn meal, the other each have their own variations. The crust isn’t a defining characteristic, and I can’t say I know of any which use a sourdugh crust. If they do they don’t hype it as such anyways. Chicago-style is pretty much defined by the deep pan, and the Crust-Cheese-Ingredient-Sauce build order. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pizza-styles-new-york-st-louis-chicago-what-is-the-difference/330722/27 "2005-11-13T20:42:54Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > The difference is that every pizza from outside Chicago just plain sucks. Order a deep dish from Pizzeria Uno or Due and then wonder how you ever ate anything else. (Not that I am biased or anything!) Except for Champaign, Illinois. I’ve eaten at the original Unos and Due, and Giordano’s, but Papa Del’s in Champaign is just better. But that’s the only exception. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pizza-styles-new-york-st-louis-chicago-what-is-the-difference/330722/28 "2005-11-13T20:46:08Z")
Papa Del’s is simply fantasic pizza. Though with the number of Chicagoans at the U of I I almost consider Champaign to be Chicago South. Try Lou Malnatti’s next time you get the chance, it’s the most similar to Papa Del’s of the famous Chicago locales. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pizza-styles-new-york-st-louis-chicago-what-is-the-difference/330722/29 "2005-11-13T21:00:01Z")
I enjoy Uno’s, and we have a couple chain locations here in Orlando. But when I visited Chicago and tried Lou Malnati’s pizza (deep dish with a whole wheat crust), it was like a religious experience. I’m generally a fan of the large, flat, wide, crispy New York style slices, but Lou Malnati’s opened a whole new world to me. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pizza-styles-new-york-st-louis-chicago-what-is-the-difference/330722/30 "2005-11-13T21:12:05Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > I enjoy Uno’s, and we have a couple chain locations here in Orlando. But when I visited Chicago and tried Lou Malnati’s pizza (deep dish with a whole wheat crust), it was like a religious experience. I’m generally a fan of the large, flat, wide, crispy New York style slices, but Lou Malnati’s opened a whole new world to me. It’s worth noting that the Pie from Pizzaria Uno/Due’s flagship locations in Chicago taste different than the ubiquitous franchises that exist around the country. Not sure if I can isolate what’s different, but whatever they did to make it nationwide ruined it a little bit. Of course I’ve already mentioned how mediocre I think Uno’s is compared to the others, so it’s no great loss. The shame of the situation is how many people have that as their first and only experience with Chicago-style. ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pizza-styles-new-york-st-louis-chicago-what-is-the-difference/330722/31 "2005-11-13T22:16:23Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > It’s worth noting that the Pie from Pizzaria Uno/Due’s flagship locations in Chicago taste different than the ubiquitous franchises that exist around the country. Not sure if I can isolate what’s different, but whatever they did to make it nationwide ruined it a little bit. Of course I’ve already mentioned how mediocre I think Uno’s is compared to the others, so it’s no great loss. The shame of the situation is how many people have that as their first and only experience with Chicago-style. It’s the crust and the baking style (I know- I got very disapointed in the chain and asked at the original, and they fessed up). Also, I’ve heard tell (and think I had once) Detroit-style, in which the meat involved (in this case, sausage) was a complete layer of the pie in and of itself, like a huge circular sausage. Num! ---
**Author:** ![myskepticsight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@myskepticsight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/myskepticsight)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pizza-styles-new-york-st-louis-chicago-what-is-the-difference/330722/32 "2005-11-13T22:17:53Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Try Lou Malnatti’s next time you get the chance, it’s the most similar to Papa Del’s of the famous Chicago locales. All my Chicago friends down here at school swear by this place. ---
**Author:** ![Avumede](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/avumede/32/7235_2.png) [@Avumede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avumede)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pizza-styles-new-york-st-louis-chicago-what-is-the-difference/330722/33 "2005-11-13T22:24:08Z")
Agreed with previous comments about St. Louis pizza, and Papa Del’s (which is my favorite). I’m living in New York now, and there is a third type of pizza here: the Grandma slice. It’s like a Sicilian slice, but much tastier. Rectangular, lots of tomato sauce, just a bit of cheese, and very oily. The crust is thinner than a sicilian but significantly thicker than a thin crust. It’s really good! ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pizza-styles-new-york-st-louis-chicago-what-is-the-difference/330722/34 "2005-11-13T22:31:21Z")
> [@ArrMatey!](#): > > Also, I’ve heard tell (and think I had once) Detroit-style, in which the meat involved (in this case, sausage) was a complete layer of the pie in and of itself, like a huge circular sausage. Num! This is not absolute, but it is pretty common amongst Chicago-style pizza’s. Lou Malnatti’s does this with their sausage deep dish, and I think Giordano’s may as well. I prefer Pepperoni and think the giant sausage patty is too overpowering so I usually avoid sausage on my Deep Dish. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pizza-styles-new-york-st-louis-chicago-what-is-the-difference/330722/35 "2005-11-13T22:35:20Z")
> [@Caractacus Pott](#): > > I’m surprised no one’s mentioned California “pizza.” The “pizza” with Thai chicken, black beans, eggplant, shrimp or other nontraditional toppings and crusts. What I’ve had is usually delicious but it doesn’t seem to be pizza to me, hence the quotation marks. Or no one else on this thread considers it pizza. Black beans? Eggplant? On a pizza? I think I’m gonna hurl. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pizza-styles-new-york-st-louis-chicago-what-is-the-difference/330722/36 "2005-11-13T22:47:55Z")
My St. Louis history My grandmother grew up in North St. Louis, moved to South St. Louis during the Depression. My mom went to Notre Dame High. She married my dad (who lived in Illinois in Clinton County) and moved out to California. One of my brothers moved back to St. Louis after his wife got a job there. They live in Clayton. I have not been to Ted Drewes because it always seem to have about a million people outside. I have been to Uno for pizza in Chicago and I loved it. Chicago style pizza is a style unto itself and it’s not directly comparable to New York style. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pizza-styles-new-york-st-louis-chicago-what-is-the-difference/330722/37 "2005-11-14T00:45:29Z")
> [@](#): > > How do they differ from the original Italian? Just one data point, but I had a great-grandfather who was a baker in Rome, around the turn of the last century. According to Grandma, pizza consisted of dough, olive oil, and “little fishies” (her words). No tomato in any form, no other meats, and no cheese. Of course (as my grandmother was quick to point out), Rome is very different from Naples, so this is in no way definitive. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pizza-styles-new-york-st-louis-chicago-what-is-the-difference/330722/38 "2005-11-14T02:23:24Z")
> [@Hello Again](#): > > I’d have to go with DiFara’s in Midwood. SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH…!!! [sub]We do NOT tell Outlanders about Di Fara’s in Midwood. The lines are long enough as it is.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![caveman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caveman/32/7242_2.png) [@caveman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caveman)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pizza-styles-new-york-st-louis-chicago-what-is-the-difference/330722/39 "2005-11-14T02:44:08Z")
> [@Avumede](#): > > Agreed with previous comments about St. Louis pizza, and Papa Del’s (which is my favorite). I’m living in New York now, and there is a third type of pizza here: the Grandma slice. It’s like a Sicilian slice, but much tastier. Rectangular, lots of tomato sauce, just a bit of cheese, and very oily. The crust is thinner than a sicilian but significantly thicker than a thin crust. It’s really good! This sounds like Old Forge ¶ style pizza, which is the style my mother’s family (from Italy by way of Lackawanna Co.) makes. When my very Anglo friends came over for pizza when I was young, they marvelled at the strange rectangular creation my mom had prepared, almost entirely unlike what Pizza Hut sold. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pizza-styles-new-york-st-louis-chicago-what-is-the-difference/330722.md?page=1)