# Placating Deaniacs **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 8, 2005, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/placating-deaniacs/334739 "2005-12-08T19:12:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/placating-deaniacs/334739/81 "2005-12-10T17:00:25Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > What’s so difficult? Fine. Dean is just biding his time, assembling like-minded individuals until the day that his political opponents in Texas will return Dean and his cadres to Vermont so he may return to power by staging a mutiny on the Fishingboat Potemkin on Lake Champlain. As I said before, you’re completely right, and I simply don’t know how to debate you. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/placating-deaniacs/334739/82 "2005-12-10T17:18:22Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > What’s so difficult? Just say, do you believe Dr. Dean or not? > > Do you think he’s an honest man, doing his best for his country? Yes or No? Yeah, sure. That is, I’ve never yet heard of Dean being caught out in a lie. Whether he’s “doing his best for his country” is something one would have to judge by one’s own political views; but most politicians are in the game for a combination of that and personal ambition, and I can see nothing that would make Dean any different in that regard. So, really, what’s so scary about him? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/placating-deaniacs/334739/83 "2005-12-10T17:22:25Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > And she’s one of Pajamas Media’s featured bloggers, so she’s not some total nobody. > > But yeah, she’s _weeeeiiiiiirrrd_. Here’s some more weirdness. [http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/12/08.html#a6242](http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/12/08.html#a6242) O’Reilly: Far Left Zealots are Nazis Let the Nazi wars begin. O’Reilly is outraged that a woman like Ann Coulter, who calls Bill Clinton a rapist and a murderer, is vilified at her speaking engagements. O’Reilly talked Ellis Henican of Newsday, and likened the left winger protesters of Coulter as: O’Reilly: The far left in this country, the zealots, these are zealots-are Nazis…and this is exactly what the Nazis did. Tell me again (I’m dense) why do people listen to this shit stain? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/placating-deaniacs/334739/84 "2005-12-10T18:16:39Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > See the part about being a cheerleader. Sure, if he were a cheerleader, to use your term, I’d be happy. But he’s not: he’s a jeerleader. And that’s hurting the Democrats. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/placating-deaniacs/334739/85 "2005-12-10T18:29:34Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > I don’t think Republicans are Nazis. I know that is hard to believe, coming from someone who believes “Dr. Dean ran for the highest post in US and he developed faithful following among the most radical Left (the kind that view even Clintons as oppressors).” > > You pathetic attempt to re-draw the politcal spectrum to your own twisted philosophy has failed. Again. Once and for all, so to speak. I’ll make you a deal. I stop calling Dr. Dean ‘potential little Lenin’ and you stop saying nonsense like Nazis were right wing. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/placating-deaniacs/334739/86 "2005-12-10T18:59:43Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > Ignorance rises its ugly head again. > > It was established once and for all on this board that Nazis were Left wing Socialists. > > Hitler’s party name was NSDAP (National Social Democrat Workers Party). Compare with Lenin’s party name RSDRP(b) (Russian Social Democrat Workers Party (bolsheviks)). Il Duce was fervent Socialist originally. _Fascio_ is Italian word for Unity. Just like the Every country with the term “Democrat” or "Democractic in their name is a demcracy, right? How about the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea? Surely they must be a democracy? It’s in the name. And last I heard, it was the right who kept telling us we must be unified in face of terrorism/communism, which usally means “Shut up if you disagree”". Only Right-wingers believe the “Nazis were left-wingers” BS, in my experience. They can’t bear to think that at the extremes of their side lies facism. Everything bad belongs to the left, not the right. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/placating-deaniacs/334739/87 "2005-12-10T19:03:47Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > What’s so difficult? Just say, do you believe Dr. Dean or not? I believe the phrase “You cannot reason a man out of a position he did not reach through reason” comes to mind. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/placating-deaniacs/334739/88 "2005-12-10T19:14:09Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Sure, if he were a cheerleader, to use your term, I’d be happy. But he’s not: he’s a jeerleader. And that’s hurting the Democrats. > > Daniel That’s one of his jobs - to throw mud at the opposing party. That’s a traditional function. If anything is hurting the Democrats, it’s their unwillingness to pick a fight on almost anything. [http://www.dailykos.com/](http://www.dailykos.com/) Senator Jack Reed (D-RI), … asked President Bush to present a strategy for the Iraq Debacle in the Democratic Radio Address … > [@Reed](#): > > President Bush has failed to outline an effective strategy for winning the war in Iraq, Sen. Jack Reed said Saturday in the Democratic Party’s weekly radio address. > > “The American people are eager to hear the president’s plan for success in Iraq, rebuilding the country and bringing our troops home,” Reed said. “Instead, the president continues to offer vague generalities and rhetoric with no specifics about what needs to be done.” > > The Rhode Island senator, saying the current course in Iraq is a mistake, called on Bush to offer a more candid appraisal of how the war-ravaged nation can be stabilized and put on a surer path to democracy. > > “If the president has any hope of regaining the nation’s support for operations in Iraq and justifying the growing cost in lives and taxpayer dollars … he must be candid and honest about the current situation.” > > Reed, a former Army Ranger who is a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, accused the Bush Administration of assailing the patriotism of Iraq war critics. > > “I have found it disturbing that the Bush administration has attacked the patriotism of those who question the administration’s policies in Iraq,” Reed charged. “Baseless partisan attacks won’t help us win the war, won’t help the troops and won’t protect our nation from our enemies.” While it is very interesting to hear about Joe Lieberman’s plan, and Howard Dean’s plan, and John Murtha’s plan and General Wesley Clark’s plan, and Senator Joe Biden’s plan, the ONLY plan that matters NOW is President Bush’s plan. Is it “stay the course”? More of the same? As Senator Reed says, the current Bush strategy is an abject failure. While it may be fun for us and the Media to play the political parlor game of “pin the Iraq Debacle on the donkey” - in the meantime, the critical business of the Bush failures on Iraq are ignored. An opposition party must provide vigilant oversight to the party in power, especially now where a supine Media has abdicated its responsibilities for at least four years. Instead of playing at President, members of the Democratic Party need to do their jobs as an opposition party - until the 2006 election campaign commences, when it will be their duty to articulate an alternative to offer to the voters. [http://www.woai.com/news/local/story.aspx?content\_id=C36A87B9-63A0-4CDE-AA91-B41571AFD3AF](http://www.woai.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=C36A87B9-63A0-4CDE-AA91-B41571AFD3AF) > [@Dean](#): > > Saying the “idea that we’re going to win the war in Iraq is an idea which is just plain wrong,” Democratic National Chairman Howard Dean predicted today that the Democratic Party will come together on a proposal to withdraw National Guard and Reserve troops immediately, and all US forces within two years. … “I’ve seen this before in my life. This is the same situation we had in Vietnam. Everybody then kept saying, ‘just another year, just stay the course, we’ll have a victory.’ Well, we didn’t have a victory, and this policy cost the lives of an additional 25,000 troops because we were too stubborn to recognize what was happening.” > > Dean says the Democrat position on the war is ‘coalescing,’ and is likely to include several proposals. > > “I think we need a strategic redeployment over a period of two years,” Dean said. "Bring the 80,000 National Guard and Reserve troops home immediately. They don’t belong in a conflict like this anyway. We ought to have a redeployment to Afghanistan of 20,000 troops, we don’t have enough troops to do the job there and its a place where we are welcome. And we need a force in the Middle East, not in Iraq but in a friendly neighboring country to fight (terrorist leader Musab) Zarqawi, who came to Iraq after this invasion. We’ve got to get the target off the backs of American troops. … “The White House wants us to have a permanent commitment to Iraq. This is an Iraqi problem. President Bush got rid of Saddam Hussein and that was a great thing, but that could have been done in a very different way. But now that we’re there we need to figure out how to leave. 80% of Iraqis want us to leave, and it’s their country.” > > Dean also compared the controversy over pre-war intelligence to the Watergate scandal which brought down Richard Nixon’s presidency in 1974. > > “What we see today is very much like what was going in Watergate,” Dean said. “It turns out there is a lot of good evidence that President Bush did not tell the truth when he was asking Congress for the power to go to war. The President said last week that Congress saw the same intelligence that he did in making the decision to go to war, and that is flat out wrong. The President withheld some intelligence from the Senate Intelligence Committee. He withheld the report from the CIA that in fact there was no evidence of weapons of mass destruction (in Iraq), that they did not have a nuclear program. They (the White House) selectively gave intelligence to the United States Senate and the United States Congress and got them to give the go ahead to attack these people.” The Democrats don’t need or want someone who is no more than a Cheerleader for Bush or the Republicans. The Democrats don’t need to become the Republicans. As the opposition party, it is their rightful place to point fingers, accuse, and try to “topple” the party in power. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/placating-deaniacs/334739/89 "2005-12-10T20:03:20Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > While it is very interesting to hear about Joe Lieberman’s plan, and Howard Dean’s plan, and John Murtha’s plan and General Wesley Clark’s plan, and Senator Joe Biden’s plan, the ONLY plan that matters NOW is President Bush’s plan. Not true. I want the Republicans to lose power in 2006. As long as the Democrats don’t offer a plausible alternative to the Republicans, they’re not likely to regain power. > [@](#): > > The Democrats don’t need or want someone who is no more than a Cheerleader for Bush or the Republicans. The Democrats don’t need to become the Republicans. As the opposition party, it is their rightful place to point fingers, accuse, and try to “topple” the party in power. Lord knows I don’t want them to be Republican cheerleaders. I don’t want them to become Republicans. I want them to become Democrats–strong, progressive voices **for a strong, progressive agenda**. At best these days they’re voices **against a conservative agenda** , which is all well and good, but which isn’t going to win elections. It is exasperating to me how fervently Democrats defend their losing strategy. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/placating-deaniacs/334739/90 "2005-12-10T20:05:18Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > Just like the Every country with the term “Democrat” or "Democractic in their name is a demcracy, right? How about the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea? Surely they must be a democracy? It’s in the name. > > … > > Only Right-wingers believe the “Nazis were left-wingers” BS, in my experience. They can’t bear to think that at the extremes of their side lies facism. Everything bad belongs to the left, not the right. North Korea in not a Democracy, it’s a Communist Dictatorship. You are free to demonstrate Right wing pedigree of Nazi party by providing a single Right wing position of theirs, such as cuts on welfare and education, privatization of industries and so on. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/placating-deaniacs/334739/91 "2005-12-10T20:48:51Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Not true. I want the Republicans to lose power in 2006. As long as the Democrats don’t offer a plausible alternative to the Republicans, they’re not likely to regain power. I want the same thing. Here are some things I see as a gross failure by “my” Democrats. 1. They are too quiet on the CIA leak investigations. They can toss their own “betrayal” accusations right back at the right. 2. They are too quiet on the “ethics” (I mean outright corruption) charges, indictments, and admissions of guilt. This ties in with item 3. 3. They need to drive home the Freedom Of Speech argument, in direct opposition to the “white flag” and “undermining the war” rhetoric and vow to uphold this as a constitutional fight. They can tie a few things neatly together, via Duke Cunningham, who put his own prosperity ahead of troop safety (steering contracts to buddies and bribers), thereby undermining the war, while calling other people traitors. Toss in other scandals too, like Libby, DeLay, etc. 4. They need to keep saying how there is no plan in “stay the course” with, and keep updating the body count. They need to support Murtha’s call for an orderly withdrawal. 5. They need to resurrect the Schiavo disaster, and present themselves as the party of religious Freedom. 6. They need to be just as willing as the “other side” to use personal attacks. Counter every “traitor coward” charge with a “chickenhawk charge”. Counter every “righteous christian” claim with an equally strong “hypocrite” claim. Instead of defending against Swiftboat screeds, attack right back and question their war records and patriotism. 7. They need to keep dredging up the “trust me” attitude, and bounce that up against the recent reports that the Republicans secretly paid for pro-U.S. stories in Iraqi newspapers and got caught secretly paying a number of U.S. journalists to write pro-Administration articles and plant them in various media outlets. 8. They need to play up the “war on Christmas” and portray themselves as the champions of religious freedom again and again and again. > [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Lord knows I don’t want them to be Republican cheerleaders. I don’t want them to become Republicans. I want them to become Democrats–strong, progressive voices **for a strong, progressive agenda**. At best these days they’re voices **against a conservative agenda** , which is all well and good, but which isn’t going to win elections. This next would be a HUGE GIGANTIC IMMENSE one to jump on, IF it is true… [http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article\_7779.shtml](http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_7779.shtml) > [@Doug Thompson](#): > > Bush on the Constitution: ‘It’s just a goddamned piece of paper’ … > “I don’t give a goddamn,” Bush retorted. “I’m the President and the Commander-in-Chief. Do it my way.” > “Mr. President,” one aide in the meeting said. “There is a valid case that the provisions in this law undermine the Constitution.” > “Stop throwing the Constitution in my face,” Bush screamed back. “It’s just a goddamned piece of paper!” … > Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, while still White House counsel, wrote that the “Constitution is an outdated document.” > Put aside, for a moment, political affiliation or personal beliefs. It doesn’t matter if you are a Democrat, Republican or Independent. It doesn’t matter if you support the invasion or Iraq or not. Despite our differences, the Constitution has stood for two centuries as the defining document of our government, the final source to determine – in the end – if something is legal or right. > Every federal official – including the President – who takes an oath of office swears to “uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States." > [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > It is exasperating to me how fervently Democrats defend their losing strategy. > Daniel They should STOP defending. In the words of General Patton, "Nobody ever defended anything successfully, there is only attack and attack and attack some more. " ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/placating-deaniacs/334739/92 "2005-12-10T21:07:58Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > They should STOP defending. In the words of General Patton, "Nobody ever defended anything successfully, there is only attack and attack and attack some more. " Your suggestions are, I’m sorry to say, pure defensiveness. Patton’s point is that you only win a war by taking new ground. If you’re acting only in response to your enemy, then you’re responding defensively. Even if you’re attacking them, you’re attacking them on the battleground that they’ve chosen. You win a war by taking ground from your enemy, and by using that ground productively. All the Democrats are doing is fighting on the Republican turf. They’re not holding any ground themselves. And that’s foolishness. Yes, I agree that they need to attack on a lot of those issues (although dredging up Schiavo is an awful idea: the Republicans got in trouble for politicizing the case, and if Democrats keep harping on it, they’ll catch a dose of the same medicine). However, as long as they don’t do something to hold the ground–that is, as long as they don’t offer their own plans–they’re not going to win anything. The strategy of tearing down the Republicans hasn’t worked for over a decade. It’s time to try something else. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/placating-deaniacs/334739/93 "2005-12-10T21:20:44Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > The strategy of tearing down the Republicans hasn’t worked for over a decade. It’s time to try something else. In addition to tearing down the Republicans, right? You aren’t seriously proposing we turn the other cheek as they tear us a new one? ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/placating-deaniacs/334739/94 "2005-12-10T21:22:49Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > North Korea in not a Democracy, it’s a Communist Dictatorship. > > You are free to demonstrate Right wing pedigree of Nazi party by providing a single Right wing position of theirs, such as cuts on welfare and education, privatization of industries and so on. And so it is. The North Koreans are not democrats despite having “democratic” in their name, Just like the Nazis weren’t leftists despite having “Socalist” in their name. -Nazis weren’t big on muti-culturism, neither is the right wing(I rather hear leftists talking about diversity and snearing). -Niether are big on homosexuals. Both seem to believe in Social Darwinism. -Both love to appeal to nationalism and imply, if not outright state, that those who argue that war isn’t the answer or is being handled badly are “defeatists” and “traitors”. -Both fervenlty hate communism or anything they perceive to be communist, which seems to be anything remotely leftist. -Among the christian right there are attempts to control science eduction, most particulary in biology class though also in health class. Compare this to “German science”, Science dictated by ideology. -The Right wing seems convinced we were betrayed by the media and that’s why we lost Vietnam. They’re already trying to spin that if we lose in Iraq, it’ll be for the same reason. The Nazis believed they lost WW1 because they were “stabbed in the back” at home. -And of course, the fact that the right wing has become less concerned with the Rule of law then if something benefits the republican party and Bush. Now, I’ve done my part. Explain why the Nazis were leftists. And no, having socalist in their name doesn’t count. I’ve already shown why with my korea example. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/placating-deaniacs/334739/95 "2005-12-10T21:29:19Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > The strategy of tearing down the Republicans hasn’t worked for over a decade. It’s time to try something else. > > Daniel Hmmmm. It’s worked quite well for the other side, but there actually is a “plan” if the party chooses to pick up on it. This is the sort of thing they need - but they do need to get on the attack too. Nobody can toss slurs very well, if they are too busy denying and trying to cover up, or dithering in front of a grand jury. Nobody can toss the traitor word, if they just got caught misappropriating or diverting or pocketing defense money. 😉 > [@Robert B. Reich](#): > > \*\*The New Covenant with America \*\* > (Democrat Contract With America) > by Robert B. Reich > > 1. Competence. We promise America a competent government headed by people with expertise and experience. We will never appoint or confirm cronies whose main qualification for office is personal connection or party loyalty. > > 2. Fiscal responsibility and a capital budget. We will get the federal budget > back under control by barring special spending (pork to political loyalists back > home) and corporate welfare (subsidies to particular industries like > agribusiness, oil, and pharmaceuticals). We will create a national capital > budget so that federal construction money never again goes to bridges to nowhere in Alaska and instead goes to stronger levees in New Orleans. > > 3. Fighting terrorism and getting out of Iraq. We will fight terrorism with a > strong military and with economic investments and aid for poor nations that are > often the breeding grounds for terrorism. But we will withdraw American troops > from Iraq. As even our generals now tell us, our presence there is incubating > new terrorists and fomenting anti-Americanism around the world. > > 4. Ending torture and respecting the rule of law. We will respect the Geneva > Conventions. We will never condone torture or keep people imprisoned > indefinitely without due process of law. > > 5. Reducing oil dependence and greenhouse gases. We will reduce American > dependence on oil and reduce global warming. By 2020, 20 percent of our energy > will come from solar, wind, biomass, and other alternative sources. Also by > 2020, America will utilize 20-percent less fuel than today. > > 6. Restoring the middle class. We will restore the growth of the American middle > class and of middle-class incomes. Supply-side economics, which rewards the rich > with generous tax breaks and tells us that the resulting economic growth will > trickle down to everyone else, has proven a cruel hoax. Little or nothing is > trickling down. A quarter of all the benefits of economic growth now go to the > richest one-tenth of 1 percent of Americans. We are determined to reverse > course. > > 7. A progressive tax code. The cost of making the nation’s homeland secure > against terrorism and natural disasters and of providing adequate health care > and education – without falling deeper into debt – will require more federal > revenue. Yet the middle class cannot afford more taxes. It’s time for the rich > to bear their fair share. We will impose a surtax of one-tenth of 1 percent per > year on net worth in excess of $1 million and will roll back the > administration’s tax cuts for those earning more than $300,000 a year. > > 8. A minimum health-care wage. The cost of health insurance for the typical > family is rising by double digits, while 46 million Americans are without > insurance altogether. We will establish a simple minimum health-care wage > offering basic health insurance – one free checkup per year, five free medical > visits, one free dental, choice of doctor or dentist limited to an approved > list, free drugs up to $1,000 per year – to any American wishing to join. The > expected large scale of this program will give government bargaining leverage to > get low prices from providers and drug companies. > > 9. Lifelong education through progressive vouchers and re-employment insurance. > We will finance every K-14 student (that’s right – two years beyond high > school) with a progressive voucher in an amount inversely related to family > income. (This year, for example, it would range from $15,000 for students from > families at or below the poverty line to $3,000 for students from families in > the wealthiest 10 percent.) The vouchers could be used at any publicly certified > school. In addition, we will turn the unemployment insurance system into a > re-employment insurance system. Recipients will get job training, job-search > assistance, and, if the new job pays less than the old, wage insurance paying > half the difference for a year. > > 10. Maintain separation of church and state. We will never allow religion to > dictate whether an individual must be kept on life support, young people can > gain access to birth-control information or counseling, women will have the > freedom to choose to terminate a pregnancy, research can be done on stem cells > or any other potential scientific innovation, or public schools must teach > nonscientific interpretations of sacred texts. > > Robert B. Reich is co-founder of The American Prospect. I would change some of the wording and tone down some sections, but the general meaning overall would be the same. Note: Item 4 is now being taken care of (I hope), thanks to a Republican, Sen. John McCain. His stubborn refusal to back down, and his insistence to do the right thing despite White House wishes, is a credit to him, and to the true moderates of both parties. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/placating-deaniacs/334739/96 "2005-12-10T21:31:13Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > In addition to tearing down the Republicans, right? You aren’t seriously proposing we turn the other cheek as they tear us a new one? No, not at all, and looking over my posts, I realize I’ve not made that as clear as I thought I had. Criticizing the Republicans for their corruption, shortsightedness, greed, and failure is absolutely appropriate and necessary. My problem is that nobody in the Democratic party is doing anything else. They need to be offering both a devastating critique of the Republicans, **and a positive alternative**. At best these days they’re only doing the former, and that’s not going to be enough to win them back control of Congress or the White House. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/placating-deaniacs/334739/97 "2005-12-10T21:36:24Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > is the sort of thing they need - but they do need to get on the attack too. Absolutely! While I’m not 100% behind all these items, this is far, far better than what’s currently out there. My objections: first, all of these items ought to be formalized into proposed bills, as the Republicans did with their Contract. When they say “no cronies,” I want to be able to see what they mean by this, how they will prevent crony culture from taking over. 1. Great rhetoric, but astonishingly vague. How are they going to reverse this trend? Okay, actually, reading over it more closely, this is my only real objection to it. I want to have Reich’s babies. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/placating-deaniacs/334739/98 "2005-12-10T21:38:34Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > Ignorance rises its ugly head again. > > It was established once and for all on this board that Nazis were Left wing Socialists. Indeed, ignorance rises its head. Like \*\*HPL \*\* is showing, there are plenty of examples that show that Nazis were not Left Wing; far from it, many European dopers in other threads thought Americans were silly by having this argument, they pointed out that Nazis were indeed the hard right of the day. So I have to say that your statement that “It was established once and for all on this board that Nazis were Left wing Socialists.” is a LIE. Point out where in the SBMB this was demonstrated or shut up. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/placating-deaniacs/334739/99 "2005-12-10T21:51:41Z")
> [@me](#): > > -Nazis weren’t big on muti-culturism, neither is the right wing(I rather hear leftists talking about diversity and snearing). That sound be “I rarely hear leftist snear when they say the word “diversity”. Or tolerance for that matter” Compare to the right’s “Ein Volk” whining. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/placating-deaniacs/334739/100 "2005-12-10T23:16:43Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > Now, I’ve done my part. Explain why the Nazis were leftists. And no, having socalist in their name doesn’t count. I’ve already shown why with my korea example. [National Socialist Program, also referred to as the 25-point program](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Program) There is not a single right wing item on the Nazi social, economic and political agenda. Your logic is: Nazis were bad, Right wingers are bad, therefore Nazis are Right wing. You stiil insist that Republicans are Nazis because they are both racist. Apparently, you need a reminder that [it was Democrats oppressing ex-slaves in the South for more then 100 years](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_law). > [@](#): > > \*The conclusion of the American Civil War in 1865 led to the policy of Reconstruction, in which the Republican-controlled Federal government intervened to protect the rights conferred on black Americans by the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments to the United States Constitution, as well as (upon their introductions) the Civil Rights Act of 1866 and the Civil Rights Act of 1875. In almost-immediate response Southern legislatures, overwhelmingly dominated by Democrats, passed the black codes, which attempted to return freed slaves to bondage in legal fact, rather than official terminology. > > … > > Jim Crow laws were a product of the solid Democratic South. As the party which supported the Confederacy, the Democrats quickly dominated all aspects of local, state and federal political life in the post-Civil War South, right up through the 1970s. Even as late as 1956, a resolution condemning the Supreme Court’s ruling in Brown v. Board of Education was read into the Congressional Record, and supported by 96 Southern Congressman and Senators, each one a Democrat.\* [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/placating-deaniacs/334739.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/placating-deaniacs/334739.md?page=6)