# Place names that were better before they changed them **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 10, 2023, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-that-were-better-before-they-changed-them/991353 "2023-10-10T11:37:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-that-were-better-before-they-changed-them/991353/61 "2023-10-12T11:27:05Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > The name “Persia” is also (derived from) an ancient Iranian ethnonym/toponym (Parsa/Pars) applying to part of that region and people. It was mistakenly (or just loosely) applied to all Iran/Iranians by other ancient peoples, particularly the Greeks. Can you expand on that? Because I’ve wondered about the relationship between the two. The people I’ve met who immigrated from the region call themselves “Persian”, and the cuisine is still usually described (in America, at least) as Persian. And my child’s nursery school celebrated any holiday a parent organized, one of which was a (non-islamic) Persian seasonal holiday. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-that-were-better-before-they-changed-them/991353/62 "2023-10-12T13:09:51Z")
Persians are an ethnic group. Iran is a country that contains many ethnic groups. Foreigners have traditionally used “Persia”, because Persians were the most numerous. In 1935, Reza Shah Pahlavi (Mohammed Reza Pahlavi’s father) asked that other nations use “Iran” in order promote unity with the minorities. from the wiki page on Iran: > Historically a multi-ethnic country, Iran remains a pluralistic society comprising [numerous ethnic, linguistic, and religious groups](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Iran), with the largest of these being [Persians](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persians), [Azeris](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azeris), [Kurds](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurds), [Mazanderanis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazanderanis), and [Lurs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lurs). ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-that-were-better-before-they-changed-them/991353/63 "2023-10-12T13:24:41Z")
All the venues that now have corporate names, I still refer to as their original names. **Starlake Amphitheater** , I’m looking at you. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-that-were-better-before-they-changed-them/991353/64 "2023-10-12T13:54:04Z")
Hell yeah. I don’t even know if northern Virginia concert venue Jiffy Lube Live had an original noncommercial name, but the name “Jiffy Lube Live” sucks donkey testicles. Sounds like the main entertainment should be watching them change the oil, etc. of people’s cars. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-that-were-better-before-they-changed-them/991353/65 "2023-10-12T14:12:39Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Speaking purely as an Anglophone, “Dublin” is a whole lot easier than “Baile Atha Cliath”. I don’t see anything wrong with place-names being different in a foreign language than they are in the native language. I can’t imagine demanding that the French call our capital “London” rather than “Londres” or the Germans demanding that both us and the French call the Bavarian capital “Munchen”. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-that-were-better-before-they-changed-them/991353/66 "2023-10-12T14:52:21Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Mount McKinley just sounds… majestic and big. Then they had to rename Denali, which sounds like a pasta dish. Strong disagree. Denali is the far superior name. McKinley sounds toyish and cheap to my ears. Similarly, Mt Washington (NH) is fairly generic, while Agiocochook has gravitas. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-that-were-better-before-they-changed-them/991353/67 "2023-10-12T15:31:34Z")
The Moda Center (basketball arena) in Portland used to be called The Rose Garden, which was a much better name. Now it’s named after some crappy health provider. The soccer stadium is now called Providence Park (another health provider), changed from Multnomah Field. > [@Telemark](#): > > Denali is the far superior name. McKinley sounds toyish and cheap to my ears. Agreed. I grew up in Alaska and it was always called “McKinley”. I much prefer “Denali”, although there are many people up there who refuse to use that name. ---
**Author:** ![Mikkel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikkel/32/13151_2.png) [@Mikkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikkel)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-that-were-better-before-they-changed-them/991353/68 "2023-10-12T15:53:51Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I can’t imagine demanding that the French call our capital “London” rather than “Londres” Or calling København “Copenhagen”. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-that-were-better-before-they-changed-them/991353/69 "2023-10-12T17:05:29Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > The Moda Center (basketball arena) in Portland used to be called The Rose Garden, which was a much better name. The Coliseum was better anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-that-were-better-before-they-changed-them/991353/70 "2023-10-12T17:16:39Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > while Agiocochook has gravitas. Agiocochook? Now THAT is an ugly name. Washington is not much better, but it is better. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-that-were-better-before-they-changed-them/991353/71 "2023-10-12T17:42:58Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Agreed. I grew up in Alaska and it was always called “McKinley”. I much prefer “Denali”, although there are many people up there who refuse to use that name. The Columbia Gorge mountains in Oregon and Washington would all be improved by returning to their Indigenous names: Wy’east instead of Mt. Hood (names with non-possessive apostrophes are inherently cool), Klickitat instead of Mt. Adams (Klickitat rolls off the tongue and is fun to say), and Loo-wit for Mt. Saint Helens. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-that-were-better-before-they-changed-them/991353/72 "2023-10-12T18:02:41Z")
I, too, think Denali is a far better name than McKinley. Not sure i want to adopt all the others, but they do have style. ---
**Author:** ![ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chockfullofheadygoodness/32/511_2.png) [@ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-that-were-better-before-they-changed-them/991353/73 "2023-10-12T19:16:21Z")
Despite being named after a corporation, Staples Center in Los Angeles was still considerably better than the current [Crypto.com](http://Crypto.com) Arena. Wonder if they’ll even still be in business when the naming rights expire in 2040. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-that-were-better-before-they-changed-them/991353/74 "2023-10-12T19:59:15Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Speaking purely as an Anglophone, “Dublin” is a whole lot easier than “Baile Atha Cliath”. So, Baile atha Cliath is old Irish, and refers to the ancient approach to the settlement. It was a series of posts (hurdles) set deep into the river bed, and one had to leap from one to the next in order to cross. [(picture a pier that has lost its cross planks.)](https://cdn.create.vista.com/api/media/small/97569774/stock-photo-old-broken-pier-at-stone-beach-of-the-baltic-sea) One can only assume that it was a bridge a couple of hundred years before that. At low tide, it was not too bad a crossing in the water, and wheeled vehicles could be brought across with a bit of a tug and a push. Dublin comes from the Viking name for the settlement which meant “black pool” and referred to a swirling confluence where dark soil was stirred up in the current. I much prefer the Irish version. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-that-were-better-before-they-changed-them/991353/75 "2023-10-12T20:02:45Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I can’t imagine demanding that the French call our capital “London” rather than “Londres” or the Germans demanding that both us and the French call the Bavarian capital “Munchen”. Nitpick: M_ü_nchen, with the diaeresis diacritical mark on the “u”: [ü](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9C). 🙂 But some places insist that they always be called everywhere in their language, for instance Ivory Coast wants to be called formally and officially Côte d’Ivoire in other languages too. From [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivory_Coast): > The name had long since been translated literally into other languages, which the post-independence government considered increasingly troublesome whenever its international dealings extended beyond the Francophone sphere. Therefore, in April 1986, the government declared that Côte d’Ivoire (or, more fully, République de Côte d’Ivoire) would be its formal name for the purposes of diplomatic protocol and has since officially refused to recognize any translations from French to other languages in its international dealings. Belarus is similar, Beijing too. Some languages abide, some don’t. Spanish, for instance, is much more reticent to change those names than German. Some places have a multitude of quite different names in different languages: think of Aachen (German and English), Aquisgrán (Spanish), Aken (Dutch), Aix-la Chapelle (French and traditional English). I don’t think those places (there are more than just Aachen: Maastricht/Mastrique, or Lisboa/Lisbon/Lissabon) are ever going to be uniformly called in those different languages. But some governments in former colonies attach great symbolism and significance to those changes. Coming back to your example: Munich is funny in Italian: they call it Monaco. As there is another Monaco closer to Italy Italians often say _Monaco di Baviera_ when refering to Munich to clarify which Monaco they mean. If they only called it by its German name they would not risk the confusion. Alas, the German _ü_ seems difficult for Italians to pronounce. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-that-were-better-before-they-changed-them/991353/76 "2023-10-12T20:04:13Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > but the name “Jiffy Lube Live” sucks donkey testicles. It was “Nissan Pavilion” which was only marginally better. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-that-were-better-before-they-changed-them/991353/77 "2023-10-12T20:20:06Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Dublin comes from the Viking name for the settlement which meant “black pool” and referred to a swirling confluence where dark soil was stirred up in the current. Are you sure it’s Norse? The Gaelic words for “black” and “pool” are _dubh_ and _linn_, respectively. Although if I understand correctly, the adjective follows the noun in Irish, so it would possibly be something like “Lindow”. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-that-were-better-before-they-changed-them/991353/78 "2023-10-12T20:20:16Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I can’t imagine demanding that the French call our capital “London” rather than “Londres” or the Germans demanding that both us and the French call the Bavarian capital “Munchen”. To me this is just common courtesy. I always do my best to learn how the people who live there refer to a place, and pronounce it as closely as I can manage. It’s a matter of respect. Renaming places for one’s own convenience is a starkly colonial attitude. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-that-were-better-before-they-changed-them/991353/79 "2023-10-12T20:22:05Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > Some places have a multitude of quite different names in different languages: think of Aachen (German and English), Aquisgrán (Spanish), Aken (Dutch), Aix-la Chapelle (French and traditional English). At least those all start with the same letter. Germany itself has an amazing array of different names, from Deutschland to Allemagne to Niemcy, to probably some others that I’m not familiar with. The difference between Munich and München is small potatoes by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-that-were-better-before-they-changed-them/991353/80 "2023-10-12T20:22:38Z")
In fact, the Vikings called it “Dyflin” and I’m not certain whether that’s Norse or Old Irish. But just at a guess I’d say we added our own words to the sounds they were using. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-that-were-better-before-they-changed-them/991353.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-that-were-better-before-they-changed-them/991353.md?page=5)