# Place names with a definite article **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 3, 2022, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425 "2022-03-03T18:58:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/1 "2022-03-03T18:58:57Z")
I’ve been noticing that The Ukraine is now mostly being referred to as Ukraine. When did this change? And how many other places take a “the”? The Hague The Netherlands The Bronx Is there a historical reason the for this? Or just randomness? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/2 "2022-03-03T19:04:52Z")
Technically, we live in The United States of America and many of our online friends live in The United Kingdom. Also: The Czech Republic The Democratic Republic of Congo Typically, the use of The in the place name is for places that encompass a group or a region. This still doesn’t explain The Bronx though. * * * The Bronx is named for The Bronx River, named for some Dutch guy from long long ago. So as the borough took its name from a river that already include the “The” it just seemed to carry along and has stuck. ---
**Author:** ![mcgato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@mcgato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mcgato)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/3 "2022-03-03T19:06:03Z")
I think that officially, it is known as “The Gambia” for reasons that I do not know. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/4 "2022-03-03T19:06:42Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Typically, the use of The in the place name is for places that encompass a group or a region. This still doesn’t explain The Bronx though. Many geographical features like rivers, deserts, and forests usually have “the” as well. One exception for a region/group that doesn’t have “the” is New England in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/5 "2022-03-03T19:08:13Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Typically, the use of The in the place name is for places that encompass a group or a region. This still doesn’t explain The Bronx though. > **[How the Bronx Got Its Name - Bronx River Alliance](https://bronxriver.org/post/story/how-the-bronx-got-its-name)** > > How the Bronx Got Its Name - Bronx River Alliance ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/6 "2022-03-03T19:10:18Z")
> [@mcgato](#): > > I think that officially, it is known as “The Gambia” for reasons that I do not know. There’s also The Bahamas. As for Ukraine, the official position is that they call it Ukraine and not The Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/7 "2022-03-03T19:10:18Z")
Oddly, we give _ **a** _ Bronx Cheer and not _ **the** _ Bronx Cheer. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/8 "2022-03-03T19:21:27Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Typically, the use of The in the place name is for places that encompass a group or a region. That’s the reasoning why Ukraine doesn’t like the “The,” I think - “Ukrania” means “borderlands” in Russian, so calling the country “The Borderlands” makes it seem like less a nation than an area (“The Netherlands” as a title goes back to when that area was a possession of Burgundy, the Hapsburgs or Spain (and was called “The Burgundian Netherlands” or “The Hapsburgian Netherlands” etc) (“Netherlands” meaning “low countries”) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/9 "2022-03-03T19:24:30Z")
The Dalles, Oregon ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/10 "2022-03-03T19:28:23Z")
The Woodlands, Texas ---
**Author:** ![veryfrank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/87869e/32.png) [@veryfrank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/veryfrank)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/11 "2022-03-03T19:28:39Z")
We have a street here in Toronto, Danforth Avenue, that’s referred to as “The Danforth.” I know some languages put a definite article in front of country names. French does this, and needless to say, it assigns masculine and feminine names. If a country name (in French) ends in “e” then it’s feminine, with six exceptions (le Belize, le Cambodge, le Mexique, le Mozambique, le Suriname, le Zimbabwe). And there are a few that don’t use the definite article. Because raisons. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/12 "2022-03-03T19:29:33Z")
_The_ Grand Canyon. Not the other one. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/13 "2022-03-03T19:32:51Z")
Hopefully this will be considered relevant and not hijacky, but I’ve sometimes wondered why we in the U.S. use the article for places like “going to _ **the** _ hospital” or “to _ **the** _ university” when Canadians (and possibly in the U.K. as well…?) just say “to hospital” and “to university”. We all more or less speak English-- did we in the U.S. add the article at some point, or did Canadians (and possibly Brits) drop the article? ---
**Author:** ![Ponch8](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponch8/32/9883_2.png) [@Ponch8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponch8)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/14 "2022-03-03T19:37:59Z")
Le Havre, a city in France ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/15 "2022-03-03T19:40:42Z")
> [@mcgato](#): > > I think that officially, it is known as “The Gambia” for reasons that I do not know. To prevent confusion with Zambia. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/16 "2022-03-03T19:44:34Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > That’s the reasoning why Ukraine doesn’t like the “The,” I think - “Ukrania” means “borderlands” in Russian, so calling the country “The Borderlands” makes it seem like less a nation than an area I discussed this with a Russian acquaintance last year. In English “the Ukraine” is wrong. In Russian, it depends on which version of “the” is used. He listed them and explained the differences. I can’t remember the details. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/17 "2022-03-03T19:44:53Z")
There’s ‘The Yukon’, but for several years now they’ve been trying to make it stop and just be, ‘Yukon’. And, yes, they are a little sensitive about it. Now you know. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/18 "2022-03-03T19:46:03Z")
Thanks. I know a Russian speaker (American, but with advanced degrees in that language) - Maybe I’ll ask him about Russian grammar… ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/19 "2022-03-03T19:49:03Z")
> [@Ponch8](#): > > Le Havre, a city in France At opposed to Havre, a town in Montana. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/20 "2022-03-03T19:50:46Z")
The Hamptons is a name that encompasses the towns of South Hampton and East Hampton. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425.md?page=2)