# Place names with a definite article **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 3, 2022, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425 "2022-03-03T18:58:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/61 "2022-03-04T15:28:14Z")
> [@anny\_m](#): > > There’s also The Villages in Florida. > > I’m not very familiar with the place, but I have the impression it’s composed of neighborhoods and not individual villages. For reasons I cannot begin to guess, my YouTube account started recommending “What’s it like to live in The Villages?” videos to me a few years ago. It seems to be a planned, age-restricted community for older people. I was vaguely aware of the name because we go to Disney World fairly frequently, and you pass the exit for The Villages on the turnpike if you’re driving to Orlando. When it shows up in the news these days, it seems to be for stories about people getting caught having voted for Trump multiple times in the same election, which has removed whatever (extremely limited) appeal it may have had. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/62 "2022-03-04T15:29:54Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > I’ve been noticing that The Ukraine is now mostly being referred to as Ukraine. When did this change? With the fall of the Soviet Union. Good summary **[here](https://time.com/12597/the-ukraine-or-ukraine/)**. > [@Time](#): > > “Ukraine is a country,” says William Taylor, who served as the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine from 2006 to 2009. “The Ukraine is the way the Russians referred to that part of the country during Soviet times … Now that it is a country, a nation, and a recognized state, it is just Ukraine. And it is incorrect to refer to the Ukraine, even though a lot of people do it.” > > …Taylor says that the diaspora, those Ukrainians now abroad and hearing reports about their homeland in English, are particularly sensitive to this definite article. “Whenever they hear the Ukraine, they fume,” Taylor says. “It kind of denies their independence, denies their sovereignty.” > > …Taylor says that dropping it sends an important message, especially among world leaders, because “the Russians don’t really, in their gut, accept that there’s an independent Ukraine.” He cites Putin sending troops to Crimea as evidence that the Russian leader views the country as a “province” of his own. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/63 "2022-03-04T15:46:26Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > With the fall of the Soviet Union. Good summary **[here](https://time.com/12597/the-ukraine-or-ukraine/)**. > > > [@](#): > > > > “Ukraine is a country,” says William Taylor, who served as the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine from 2006 to 2009. “The Ukraine is the way the Russians referred to that part of the country during Soviet times … Now that it is a country, a nation, and a recognized state, it is just Ukraine. And it is incorrect to refer to the Ukraine, even though a lot of people do it.” > > > > > …Taylor says that the diaspora, those Ukrainians now abroad and hearing reports about their homeland in English, are particularly sensitive to this definite article. “Whenever they hear the Ukraine, they fume,” Taylor says. “It kind of denies their independence, denies their sovereignty.” > > > > > > …Taylor says that dropping it sends an important message, especially among world leaders, because “the Russians don’t really, in their gut, accept that there’s an independent Ukraine.” He cites Putin sending troops to Crimea as evidence that the Russian leader views the country as a “province” of his own. Note that neither Russian nor Ukrainian has definite articles. None of these implied distinctions regarding “the Ukraine” and “Ukraine” are inherent in the English language. ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/64 "2022-03-04T16:09:24Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > The Hamptons is a name that encompasses the towns of South Hampton and East Hampton. And the locals really really really don’t care for it. Heck, Hampton Bays is trying to get its name reverted to the original name, from before developers gussied it up in 1922: Good Ground. In East Hampton is an area called Springs. Someone from away thought it was a good idea to put up a sign on the road into Springs that says “Welcome to The Springs.” Many people were annoyed, especially the families who have lived in Springs since the 17th century. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/65 "2022-03-04T16:12:02Z")
To someone who is not from there, “The Springs” sounds much more natural than “Springs.” Interesting! ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/66 "2022-03-04T16:15:38Z")
To add to the complications in America, “in the hospital” would generally imply being a patient (there are exceptions). “At the hospital” would imply being on the hospital grounds for some other reason. Similarly “in college” usually means “enrolled” while “at college” refers to physical presence. ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/67 "2022-03-04T16:17:36Z")
Strictly speaking, the place is called Accabonac, “place of roots,” from the local Montauket language. It may be a reference to wild potatoes or it could be a reference to the fresh water springs that serve as the “root” of the main harbor and several streams and marshy areas. Locals are called _Bonackers_. The English they speak holds accents traceable to 17th century Devon, in England, from whence the original settlers came. That distinct regionalism is rapidly fading, sadly. Why, yes, my dad _was_ Village Historian, how did you guess? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/68 "2022-03-04T21:09:54Z")
I just ran across a reference to “the Lebanon” in an Agatha Christie novel; and there’s a Human League song by that name. What’s up with that? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/69 "2022-03-04T22:03:50Z")
Well, for one thing, in Arabic, the definite article is generally used with nouns routintely. However, in this case, Wiktionary ([Lebanon - Wiktionary, the free dictionary](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Lebanon)) notes that in English: > The country is traditionally referred to with the definite article _[the](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/the#English)_ , though this construction has declined in use There is a citation to: Motschenbacher, Heiko (2020), “ _Greece_ , _the Netherlands_ and _(the) Ukraine_ : A Corpus-Based Study of Definite Article Use with Country Names”, in A Journal of Onomastics, volume 68, issue 1, [DOI](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_object_identifier):[10.1080/00277738.2020.1731241](https://doi.org/10.1080%2F00277738.2020.1731241), pages 1–16: [https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00277738.2020.1731241](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00277738.2020.1731241) Which, it seems was written just for this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/70 "2022-03-04T22:07:04Z")
Doesn’t Spanish tend to use a definite article with a whole bunch of nouns, common as well as proper, where a definite article is not used in English? ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/71 "2022-03-04T23:05:31Z")
I have heard my Irish wife refer to (neutral) Irish peacekeeping forces as being deployed to “the Leb.” Always made me thing about “The 'Nam.” ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/72 "2022-03-05T04:42:17Z")
As far as cities go, I have a list I’ve compiled over the years of incorporated places that have a English definite article in them: The Bronx NY (borough) The Colony TX (city) The Dalles OR (city) The Hague, Netherlands (city) The Hills TX (village) The Pas MB (town) The Plains VA (town) The Village OK (city) The Village of Indian Hill OH (city) You may wonder about that last one. The corporate names of most incorporated places have a phrase such as “The City of” or “The Town of” in front of them. It’s routinely dropped in virtually all instances of the name being used. Indian Hill used to be a village, but then grew too large. Ohio state law says when incorporated places get more than 5000 people, they become a city. But the people there wanted to stay a village, so they changed their corporate name to “The City of The Village of Indian Hill”. Drop the initial phrase and it still has such a phrase. However, often that second phrase is also dropped. Its Wikipage, for example, is just Indian Hill, Ohio. There’s also some Census Designated Places that have a definite article. There may be others, I haven’t made as much effort to make this list exhaustive. The Lakes MN The Pinery CO The Plains OH The Villages FL The Woodlands TX There’s also a suburb of Brisbane, Queensland called The Gap. I think it’s unincorporated, but may be wrong. A lot of these places were named previously in the thread. I’m not trying to take away credit or anything, just being exhaustive. ---
**Author:** ![Wallaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dc4da7/32.png) [@Wallaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallaby)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/73 "2022-03-05T20:10:21Z")
Why is our planet called Earth, yet commonly refered to as ‘The Earth’? No other planet is. Is there something special about ‘The Earth’? Why doesn’t our moon have any name at all? it’s just ‘The Moon’. Locally, we all have our own version of ‘the river’ or ‘the highway’ (even ‘the street’), but they also have definite names. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/74 "2022-03-05T20:24:51Z")
> [@Wallaby](#): > > Why is our planet called Earth, yet commonly refered to as ‘The Earth’? No other planet is. > Is there something special about ‘The Earth’? > > Why doesn’t our moon have any name at all? it’s just ‘The Moon’. Locally, we all have our own version of ‘the river’ or ‘the highway’ (even ‘the street’), but they also have definite names. This is pretty anglocentric ---
**Author:** ![Wallaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dc4da7/32.png) [@Wallaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallaby)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/75 "2022-03-05T20:37:45Z")
It’s an anglocentric thread. No one has brought up the fact that we call Gabon ‘Gabon’, when the locals call it ‘Le Gabon’. Not to mention ‘La France’. The example in the OP was ‘The Netherlands’, when local speakers refer to the country as ‘Nederland’ (no article). It’s how english speakers refer to place names. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/76 "2022-03-05T20:43:54Z")
The Arctic, but just Antarctica. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/77 "2022-03-05T20:54:11Z")
Penguins don’t come from next door, they come from The Antarctic. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/78 "2022-03-05T21:20:46Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > The Arctic, but just Antarctica. Antarctica is the continent, the Antarctic is the south polar region, i.e. that area south of the Antarctic Circle. When Antarctica moves out of that region (which it will in something like 5 to 10 million years), it’ll still be Antarctica. Or would be if there’s any English speakers left. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/79 "2022-03-05T21:28:31Z")
Seventy-eight posts and no mention of Der Wienerschnitzel? ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425/80 "2022-03-05T21:37:41Z")
Spooky: they dropped the “Der” in '78. 😱 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/place-names-with-a-definite-article/960425.md?page=5)