# Places kids don't belong? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 22, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820 "2011-05-22T21:47:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/61 "2011-05-23T09:38:57Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > I find it hard to believe that-- as replies seem to indicate-- there’s lot and lots of parents who are completely oblivious to the opinions of others as to whether or not their kids belong in a venue. For instance, I was pushing the stroller on the sidewalk, and people showed their approval by smiling at me and my kid. I pushed that stroller into a bookshop, people got a lot less smiley. I shouldn’t browse for books with my kid? I gotta get a sitter for that? I’d venture to say that the people in the bookstore got less smiley because they are all too accustomed to parents with screaming babies who will not remove the screaming baby from the store when it’s disrupting other customers. If your baby is well-rested and in a good mood, and content to sit in its stroller playing quietly, I certainly don’t see a problem with having the baby in a bookstore. > [@](#): > > It gets even more apparent when, say, I take my kid into a church, or-- worse-- a plane. I think the church thing probably has to do with the fact that I only took my kids into one because of a Christmas concert, which seemed like a fairly kid friendly event to me. I certainly didn’t find it hard to stick close to an exit in case the baby started to fuss. Don’t see a problem with that, either. Your reasoning that a church Christmas concert would be family-friendly is certainly understandable, and you were being a _responsible parent_ by having an exit strategy. Good for you!! (I really mean that; I’ve been known to positively comment to people that I’ve seen remove screaming children from public venues). > [@](#): > > Obviously, I can’t do that on a plane but believe me I wouldn’t take a small kid on one if I thought I had a choice. For one thing, they stick you in the baby ghetto at the back of the plane. For another, well, it’s its own punishment. I don’t need dirty looks from the insipid blonde only child bitch in seat 7D to let me know that my baby is crying. I can hear it. Not a lot I can do, really. All this bouncing her up and down and playing with the air phone is mostly for show. She’s going to cry for a while. Sorry. Planes certainly _are_ a different matter. Sometimes you gotta fly somewhere. You can’t take the baby and leave if it starts bothering others. You can have coping strategies, etc. but there’s really only so much you can do. > [@](#): > > I suspect that a lot of the standout incidents people remember of crying babies or kids out of hand might have a lot to do with unusual circumstances. My guess, as a parent, is that these incidents (most of them) are the result of kids who’ve been pushed beyond their boundaries. If you know your kid can sit quietly for an hour under _good circumstances_, then don’t expect them to sit for two hours, and for heaven’s sake, try your hardest to make sure circumstances are good! If your child is bored, hungry or tired, melt-downs are that much more likely. If you’re going to take your young child to a museum, do it immediately after a nap and a snack, and plan on taking the child’s cue on when it’s time to leave. Yes, many adults can spend _hours_ browsing in an art museum. But even with all that visual stimulation (in some cases, _because_ of all that visual stimulation), that’s _way_ too long for a small child. > [@](#): > > I don’t like the idea that there’s an unofficial set of rules of where I can and can’t take my kids. If I was a big foodie I might want to take my kids to fancy restaurants, even though there’s a risk of social embarrassment. I’d certainly like to take my kids into a bloody bookshop without seeing patrons acting put out. I really don’t get that one. Nobody mentioned it in the thread; it’s just something I ran into once. If I wanted to take my young child to a fancy restaurant, here’s how I’d do it: first, we’d have ‘practice’ at home, discussing what tone of voice is appropriate, how she’s expected to sit, etc. Second, I wouldn’t take her for a full meal. Full meals at fancy restaurants take hours. Introduce her to the concept of fancy restaurants, and give her a chance to practice her new skills, by taking her just for dessert (when they’re sure to have something appealing on the menu anyway). Third, I’d take her during ‘off-hours’, not at peak dinner time, etc. About five years ago, we spent Christmas in Colonial Williamsburg, VA. There was a fancy tea at one of the taverns, and I took **mudgirl** , who was then five. The day _before_ the tea, I took her out to breakfast at Bob Evans (very family-friendly) and told her we were going to practice our ‘fancy tea’ manners there; we made sure to unfold our napkins and place them in our laps, keep elbows off the table, sit up straight, and use lots of good manners! This prepared her for the tea, and it was a nice afternoon. Basically, it boils down to the parents. There are parents who simply cannot see that their Little Precious is doing anything wrong, but there are plenty of others who think “Well, if I take her out of here now, I’ll have to listen to her scream all the way home, or I can listen to her scream right here and at least finish looking at what I want to look at”, and that’s what they do, regardless of the irritation it’s causing others. Those parents need to be smacked. Hard. But you certainly sound like the antithesis of ‘that parent’. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Double\_Foolscap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@Double\_Foolscap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Double_Foolscap)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/62 "2011-05-23T09:42:05Z")
> [@Otara](#): > > Once bookstore issues and the like vanish, etiquette about where you can take your children might matter more. Some bookstores themselves are in danger of vanishing, which brings up whole other problems. I’m sick of people leaving their kids in the book section of Amazon - getting their grubby typing all over the reviews, and making the statistics on who bought the advertised products all wonky. If they have to leave them online, at least divert them to the Toys R Us page where I can _expect_ kids to be :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/63 "2011-05-23T12:14:20Z")
> [@Moonlitherial](#): > > The problem here is confirmation bias. There are probably three times as many kids as you notice in restaurants, museums and live performances but the one sthat stand out and stick in your memory are the loud obnoxious ones with clueless or pandering parents. > > The next time a kid annoys you try looking around to see if there are a couple more in the area who are behaving. It’s likely there are. The confirmation bias works both ways. I’ve been working with kids for a decade now - volunteering at Sunday School, leading Scout Troops, volunteering in classrooms. I’ve known some GREAT well behaved six and seven year olds - who I’ve watched melt down and misbehave. It isn’t often - they are, on general, well behaved kids. But they are SIX, they can’t continually regulate their emotions like they will be able to in a few more years. I can’t tell with my own kids when they will be well behaved (usually) or when they will turn into little demons. By about four, the frequency of misbehavior went down dramatically. There are clues - are they hungry, tired? But those clues aren’t 100%. I didn’t have enough confidence to take them to an adult live performance - for chamber orchestra I’d have to be 99.9% sure that my kids were not going to cause a disturbance, and that .1% is “they got ill during the performance.” I haven’t seen a six year old I’d be 99.9% sure of. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/64 "2011-05-23T14:13:09Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > I don’t like the idea that there’s an unofficial set of rules of where I can and can’t take my kids. If I was a big foodie I might want to take my kids to fancy restaurants, even though there’s a risk of social embarrassment. I’d certainly like to take my kids into a bloody bookshop without seeing patrons acting put out. I really don’t get that one. Nobody mentioned it in the thread; it’s just something I ran into once. I really don’t understand this at all. There are a set of rules on where or where anyone can and can’t go. In college, it is inappropriate to take your mother to a Rush Party. It is inappropriate for Bill’s girlfriend to invite herself along on “Guys Night.” When we have bookclub at my house (a women’s bookclub) my husband makes himself scarce - as do all the other women’s husbands. Sometimes scarce is “upstairs” or “in another room.” (I’ve never gotten an evil eye with my kids in bookstores). ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/65 "2011-05-23T15:24:58Z")
It depends on the age and maturity of the kid. I don’t think they belong in a salon or spa. It’s way too hard to watch them and most are way too young to enjoy it. I remember seeing an episode of _Teen Mom_ (yes, I watch it, mostly to make me feel better about my parenting skills 🙂 ) where Farrah took her daughter for a pedicure. For her first birthday. My daughter is 18 months and still occasionally chews on her toes. In general, I think it’s a bad idea to take your kid anywhere you can’t watch them properly, and ideally you won’t take them somewhere you’d be setting them up for a tantrum. I think you’re doing the kid a disservice as much as the other patrons if you take them someplace where you know there’s a good chance they won’t be able to follow basic rules. But there’s a caveat - there always is - you can’t always be sure how your kids will react. As **Dangerosa** mentioned, some kids will be angels most of the time, but then there’s always the off chance they’ll lose it. The biggest exception I can think of this (and I’m sure I’ll be flamed for this) is an airplane. Yes, it sucks to be stuck anywhere near a screaming child on an airplane, but sometimes you need to get from point A to point B. And saying, “Well, the parents should just drive!” penalizes parents for having kids. I would have no problem with a “family” section in an airplane, but I think expecting that parents would never take their kids on a flight is silly. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/66 "2011-05-23T16:10:12Z")
Mr. Krebbs: > [@](#): > > but I don’t think children under twelve belong in any fine dining establishments. Nice dividing line there - my wife and I just took our twelve-year old daughter to one to celebrate her Bat Mitzvah. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/67 "2011-05-23T16:24:04Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Mars is no place to raise a kid. Yeah, no one there to raise them… ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/68 "2011-05-23T16:51:04Z")
Re: Baby in the bookstore. Is the baby in a stroller? Then my problem is with the stroller, not the baby. I went outlet shopping this weekend, and these clothing stores are tightly packed with merchandise. There’s barely room to walk in between racks without snagging your purse on a hanger. And two women were there with their kids in big strollers, blocking aisles, making it very difficult for other shoppers to maneuver around them. That’s inconsiderate. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/69 "2011-05-23T16:53:24Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Serious answer, well-behaved kids should be allowed go anywhere there’s nothing too weird happening. badly behaved kids should be kept at home in perpetuity. I agree with this post. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/70 "2011-05-23T17:44:08Z")
Bookstores have notoriously narrow aisles. If I found a stroller blocking my passage, someone would get the evil eye. ---
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/71 "2011-05-23T18:18:23Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > Because they don’t like sitting still and quiet for a couple of hours straight, and start to get antsy and wiggly, and talk in normal voices. > > I recently attended three different recitals of various community groups, one of which I performed in as well, and all three of them were negatively affected by children who were not able to sit still for the entire performance and started to ask questions of their parents in normal tones of voice. **Which the parents responded to, in normal tones of voice.** (bolding mine) I think I see the problem! ---
**Author:** ![Lorski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Lorski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lorski)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/72 "2011-05-23T18:57:20Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > :dubious: $25-$30 is \*hardly \*fine dining. Now if you’re paying upwards of $50-$100 a plate, then yeah I’d agree with you. It is to me. Sorry, not everyone is rich and snobby. In fact, there is no way in hell I would spend $25 dollars on a plate of food. That’s just ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/73 "2011-05-23T19:12:15Z")
It’s equally ridiculous to assert that the upper limit of your personal budget constitutes “fine dining”. > [@gallows fodder](#): > > Then my problem is with the stroller, not the baby. I went outlet shopping this weekend, and these clothing stores are tightly packed with merchandise. There’s barely room to walk in between racks without snagging your purse on a hanger. And two women were there with their kids in big strollers, blocking aisles, making it very difficult for other shoppers to maneuver around them. That’s inconsiderate. I feel ya, but you know what’s worse than strollers? Free-range toddlers. ---
**Author:** ![melodyharmonius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/melodyharmonius/32/21310_2.png) [@melodyharmonius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/melodyharmonius)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/74 "2011-05-23T19:27:18Z")
Job interviews. Please stop bringing your kids to job interviews. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/75 "2011-05-23T19:30:31Z")
> [@gallows\_fodder](#): > > Re: Baby in the bookstore. Is the baby in a stroller? Then my problem is with the stroller, not the baby. I went outlet shopping this weekend, and these clothing stores are tightly packed with merchandise. There’s barely room to walk in between racks without snagging your purse on a hanger. And two women were there with their kids in big strollers, blocking aisles, making it very difficult for other shoppers to maneuver around them. That’s inconsiderate. This is one of the problems of determining whether you are being glared at because you brought your kids, glared at because your stroller is getting in the way, glared at because your baby in the stroller is sucking on a bottle of apple juice which is bad for their teeth and aren’t you breastfeeding, glared at because in talking to your friend who is shopping with you, you’ve managed to make an overheard statement that the stranger does not agree with, glared at because the person glaring at you is having crappy thoughts flit through her brain that have nothing at all to do with you or your offspring, or glared at because the stranger glaring at you has a face whose natural expression is set to “glare.” Reading someone’s mind to determine the reason for their disapproval is not a failproof method. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/76 "2011-05-23T19:31:25Z")
Court. Judge’s don’t like it, even if they’re well behaved. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/77 "2011-05-23T19:37:07Z")
> [@melodyharmonius](#): > > Job interviews. Please stop bringing your kids to job interviews. I did, in an act that was in fact highly inappropriate, bring my newborn daughter to an employee job review. I was the boss. It was the review cycle. I’d managed to give birth early. The baby was too young to leave with anyone yet, I was breastfeeding and on maternity leave. I probably should have put my foot down and made MY boss do the review. But MY boss didn’t have the context for they type of job that was done, and our merit increases were tied to the review cycle. The other option was waiting three months until my leave ended and giving the review - but that meant the employee would be three months without their raise. I did NOT nurse during the review - that would have gone over the edge. She slept in her car carrier. I switched jobs when she was six months old. For some reason, I had her with me for the drug test appointment that was required - probably she had an ear infection, and was banned from daycare. The staff at the testing center thought it hilarious that a nursing mother was in for a drug test with her baby in tow. Sometimes, even when its inappropriate to bring your kid somewhere, you bring them. However, that doesn’t make babies at job reviews appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![melodyharmonius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/melodyharmonius/32/21310_2.png) [@melodyharmonius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/melodyharmonius)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/78 "2011-05-23T19:42:28Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > I did, in an act that was in fact highly inappropriate, bring my newborn daughter to an employee job review. > > Sometimes, even when its inappropriate to bring your kid somewhere, you bring them. However, that doesn’t make babies at job reviews appropriate. I can see both of your issues and would probably be more lenient about it. But for me - I’m hiring for light industrial workers. I am continually amazed by people who bring their kids, their posse, or their significant others to job interviews. It just makes me wonder if you will bring them, and all their drama, to the workplace if I hire you. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/79 "2011-05-23T19:44:40Z")
> [@Lorski](#): > > It is to me. Sorry, not everyone is rich and snobby. In fact, there is no way in hell I would spend $25 dollars on a plate of food. That’s just ridiculous. Maybe so, but that doesn’t make it “fine dining.” Applebee’s, TGI Friday’s, etc. type restaurants around here are usually around $20-30 for an entree. Thinking you wouldn’t see kids at a place like that is absurd. ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/80 "2011-05-23T19:58:46Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > This is one of the problems of determining whether you are being glared at because you brought your kids, glared at because your stroller is getting in the way, glared at because your baby in the stroller is sucking on a bottle of apple juice which is bad for their teeth and aren’t you breastfeeding, glared at because in talking to your friend who is shopping with you, you’ve managed to make an overheard statement that the stranger does not agree with, glared at because the person glaring at you is having crappy thoughts flit through her brain that have nothing at all to do with you or your offspring, or glared at because the stranger glaring at you has a face whose natural expression is set to “glare.” > > Reading someone’s mind to determine the reason for their disapproval is not a failproof method. Oh, I didn’t glare…but I did utter “excuse me” with a slight degree of hauteur. 🙂 Seriously, if you’re blocking the only exit in a maze of clothing racks with your huge stroller, you are in the wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820.md?page=5)