# Places kids don't belong? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 22, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820 "2011-05-22T21:47:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/141 "2011-05-26T00:17:13Z")
> [@Autolycus](#): > > Kid’s fingers do not belong up my asshole, but yet that is my life every day here at a Japanese elementary school. Kancho FTL. ---
**Author:** ![YaraMateo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/58f4c7/32.png) [@YaraMateo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YaraMateo)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/142 "2011-05-26T00:43:33Z")
> [@CaveMike](#): > > Except that this thread lists a lot more than a _few_ – even ignoring the joke posts. Some go so far as to suggest that a baby in a stroller can’t go to any place that has narrow aisles. This is absurd. > > It’s annoying to work hard to raise well-behaved kids only to read a list of stuff they shouldn’t be allowed to do. If you go into a store with a **big carriage** knowing it has small aisles and everyone has to go around you, it’s rude. Maybe no has the right to tell you to leave, except the owner, but it’s still really rude and it’s ruining everyone else’s time. I suppose because you have kids, everyone else can have their time ruined in a place they’re also spending money in. ---
**Author:** ![YaraMateo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/58f4c7/32.png) [@YaraMateo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YaraMateo)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/143 "2011-05-26T00:50:51Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > Sorry - I have a small child and I’ve turned down invitations (including a Dopefest) because I knew he was not welcome. The couple that knows this and brings their child anyway are assholes. They’re not assholes. Their kids are special and mature. :rolleyes: Anyone who doesn’t want to see those kids are cranky and socially retarded :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/144 "2011-05-26T01:09:04Z")
> [@Autolycus](#): > > Kid’s fingers do not belong up my asshole, but yet that is my life every day here at a Japanese elementary school. Hah! Welcome to Asia, where it is inappropriate to kiss your girlfriend in public but perfectly okay to be molested daily by 7-year-olds obsessed with your ass. ---
**Author:** ![vix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a88e4f/32.png) [@vix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vix)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/145 "2011-05-26T01:38:28Z")
I’m with the folks saying “it depends on the kid and the circumstances, and if Junior is disruptive, you leave ASAP.” Re: art museums: My sister used to teach at a public elementary school in the Bronx. Working with her school’s art teacher, she did an extended project about art and artists, including van Gogh. The kids studied “Starry Night” and made copies of it in class. My sister prepped her class for a visit to the Museum of Modern Art. She went so far as to teach the kids to form a horseshoe in front of a piece of art. She assigned spots to them (shorter kids in front) so there’d be no jostling for position. They practiced in class until they could form up quickly and quietly. The kids were excited to be in the museum and REALLY excited to see “Starry Night.” They were behaving well – my sister is a strict teacher and wouldn’t have taken a kid along who would be disruptive in any way. The kids finally get to the painting and form their horseshoe… and some prick comes and stands directly in front of them. My sister politely asked him to move, and he totally ignored her. She didn’t want to make a scene in front of her students, so they had to wait for this douche to move. I asked her how the kids reacted. Apparently, they all just sort of stood there and rolled their eyes at one another. ---
**Author:** ![Pitchmeister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pitchmeister/32/3459_2.png) [@Pitchmeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pitchmeister)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/146 "2011-05-26T08:35:54Z")
> [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > Hah! Welcome to Asia, where it is inappropriate to kiss your girlfriend in public but perfectly okay to be molested daily by 7-year-olds obsessed with your ass. I thought **Autolycus’s** post was a joke that whooshed me somehow, but now you have gotten me curious - WTF are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/147 "2011-05-26T10:17:31Z")
> [@YaraMateo](#): > > If you go into a store with a **big carriage** knowing it has small aisles and everyone has to go around you, it’s rude. Maybe no has the right to tell you to leave, except the owner, but it’s still really rude and it’s ruining everyone else’s time. I suppose because you have kids, everyone else can have their time ruined in a place they’re also spending money in. How about fat people and the disabled, should they also not shop? The kids don’t belong in art museums idea has been very well countered already, but I’d like to point out that my local art museum doesn’t charge an entry fee for children under 12, so it looks to me like the management is encouraging parents to bring 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/148 "2011-05-26T10:19:21Z")
um ---
**Author:** ![Sierra\_Indigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Sierra\_Indigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sierra_Indigo)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/149 "2011-05-26T11:44:13Z")
[Kancho?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kancho) ---
**Author:** ![Pitchmeister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pitchmeister/32/3459_2.png) [@Pitchmeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pitchmeister)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/150 "2011-05-26T11:53:53Z")
Again, WTF? What a bizarre thing to do. And here I was thinking the Japanese were polite. While doing it to a friend or peer is very strange, I can’t even begin to imagine doing this to a teacher or any sort of authority figure. Color me puzzled. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/151 "2011-05-26T12:37:18Z")
My “cute kid in art museum” story. My kids were probably five and six, maybe four and five…and I decided to expose them to “culture.” It wasn’t their first (or last) trip to a museum, but it was their first trip to the Minneapolis Institute of Art in their memory. We did pretty well for a while, but I probably pushed it too long. And I hadn’t been to the museum for a while, so I was turning corners looking for things unsure of where we’d turn up. The room I wanted to show them was gone. We turned a corner, and ended up in a gallery of - well, there were a lot of nudes. And my son says, loudly “Mom, you can see their butts!” Did you know that the MIA echos? (I like quiet in art museums, but I am more than willing in an art museum myself to give up a few moments of quiet contemplation that I can go back to when the kids leave - or I can move onto another room or another piece. Unlike a live performance, where you can’t just “pick it up where you left off.” If the little kid next to you decides to squirm through the whole third movement, the third movement has passed you by. Should art museums ever become places with entire packs of roaming feral children and no room for quiet contemplation, I’d want some “adult time” at the museum where children were not allowed. But usually, kids are sparse enough to leave plenty of room for both my quiet contemplation and my kids getting culture.) ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/152 "2011-05-26T12:57:14Z")
> [@sugar\_and\_spice](#): > > For a formal party you don’t specify who is **not** invited, at least not by traditional etiquette. You send the invite to the adults of the household. If the kids names aren’t listed, and there’s no mention of “Kid’s welcome!” then the kids are not formally invited. > This is something I’ve read multiple places in wedding planning, it’s actually not something I just made up. This “rule” must be honoured more in the breach than in the observance, at least among weddings I’ve seen - I’ve gone to literally dozens of weddings, and I have never seen a “kids welcome” on the invitation. This includes weddings in which kids were expected to hold flowers as part of the wedding party, so obviously kids were okay. I’ve looked at a couple of ediquette sites, and they say what I think is the sensible thing - if you don’t want kids at your wedding, you must specifically tell people this. [http://www.bridalweddingshowers.com/the-etiquette-for-kids-and-wedding](http://www.bridalweddingshowers.com/the-etiquette-for-kids-and-wedding) > [@](#): > > For parents, if it is not mentioned in the wedding invitation that children are not allowed to attend the wedding, and the couple and hosts did not call to emphasize the idea, then it is safe to assume that you could tag along your children. Relying on some obscure convention such as the distinction between inviting “Mr. & Mrs. Malthus” and “The Malthus family” is, put simply, going to end in disaster, as not everyone knows or follows this convention. Etiquette is supposed to ease social situations, not make them worse. If you wish to exclude kids, the best thing to do is make this fact understood. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/153 "2011-05-26T12:59:58Z")
> [@Mr.Krebbs](#): > > I can begrudgingly give the parents of young children a pass at the Olive Garden or whatever, but I don’t think children under twelve belong in any fine dining establishments. If I’m paying $25-30 for a plate, I don’t want to listen to your kids while I eat it. Whatever. If I pay $25-50 for a plate, my son is free to chat with me while he eats it. He’s pretty cultured for a six year old. :rolleyes: but in all seriousness, I take him damn near everywhere. He behaves, too, so that works. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/154 "2011-05-26T13:02:39Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Our circle has both types of parties - kids welcome, kids not welcome. And we do drink, but we don’t get high and most of us have been married for years (we aren’t swingers either). > > We didn’t all breed at the same time - which I think is part of it. Those that have kids in college now are so over having kids all over the house - and there are some people who still have small kids. When our kids were small, we didn’t mind having a lot of kids around during a party…but ours are past the “spread toys all over the place” stage - and well past the “have to be supervised” stage. We’ve also moved onto wanting to do a different kind of entertaining…wine tastings, for instance. A friend of mine rents a hall every year and throws a grown up dance party (no kids) for 200 people. > > You get different people at your parties depending on the child status. If you really want the entire set with young kids, you’d better make it a family friendly event - they don’t hire too many sitters. But your less likely to get the child free. As stated, it depends on one’s circle of friends and the type of event. No-one should take their kid to a wine-tasting at a rented hall with 200 people (aside from everything else, that would likely run late). But if you are having an afternoon get-together for a backyard BBQ with your friends, and those friends have kids - particularly if many of them do … ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/155 "2011-05-26T13:08:18Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > My “cute kid in art museum” story. > > My kids were probably five and six, maybe four and five…and I decided to expose them to “culture.” It wasn’t their first (or last) trip to a museum, but it was their first trip to the Minneapolis Institute of Art in their memory. > > We did pretty well for a while, but I probably pushed it too long. And I hadn’t been to the museum for a while, so I was turning corners looking for things unsure of where we’d turn up. The room I wanted to show them was gone. We turned a corner, and ended up in a gallery of - well, there were a lot of nudes. > > And my son says, loudly “Mom, you can see their butts!” > > Did you know that the MIA echos? > > (I like quiet in art museums, but I am more than willing in an art museum myself to give up a few moments of quiet contemplation that I can go back to when the kids leave - or I can move onto another room or another piece. Unlike a live performance, where you can’t just “pick it up where you left off.” If the little kid next to you decides to squirm through the whole third movement, the third movement has passed you by. Should art museums ever become places with entire packs of roaming feral children and no room for quiet contemplation, I’d want some “adult time” at the museum where children were not allowed. But usually, kids are sparse enough to leave plenty of room for both my quiet contemplation and my kids getting culture.) My favourite museum story was when my kid was very young - just a toddler. I took him to see a display of Peruvian gold artifacts, during the afternoon - it wasn’t at all busy. He loved it. There was one item in particular that attracted his attention - a giant idol of a chief-god, scowling fiercely and about 8’ tall … he toddled towards this thing, reached out one chubby finger pointing directly at its cruel-looking face, and exclaimed: “Da-da! Da-da!” There was only one other couple in the room plus the guard, and they all burst out laughing at this. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/156 "2011-05-26T13:47:14Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > As stated, it depends on one’s circle of friends and the type of event. No-one should take their kid to a wine-tasting at a rented hall with 200 people (aside from everything else, that would likely run late). But if you are having an afternoon get-together for a backyard BBQ with your friends, and those friends have kids - particularly if many of them do … Then its probably appropriate to assume the invitation is for the whole family - but its never a bad idea to ask. For years our big party was kids. We switched it to not kids. Which meant that we managed to embarrass one set of friends who didn’t read the invitation (where we said ‘we love your kids, but we’ve moved on and have decided to have an adult party for now’). Formal invitations (i.e. written ones) are addressed Mr. and Mrs. John Smith and Family (bring the kids) Mr. and Mrs. John Smith (don’t bring the kids) Mr. John Smith, Ms. Jessica Doe and Family (bring the kids) Mr. John Smith and Guest (John is single, not seeing anyone seriously enough for you to put on the invitation, but you want him to bring someone if he chooses.) Invitation by phone or email should be worded to avoid ambiguity. “We are having some people over on Saturday for a BBQ…would you guys like to come? Of course, the kids are welcome.” “We are having a few people over Friday night to hang out. Do you think you can get a sitter?” Even when your circle of friends ALWAYS does it one way or the other. Because someday, people may decide to do it a different way. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/157 "2011-05-26T14:02:36Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Then its probably appropriate to assume the invitation is for the whole family - but its never a bad idea to ask. > > For years our big party was kids. We switched it to not kids. Which meant that we managed to embarrass one set of friends who didn’t read the invitation (where we said ‘we love your kids, but we’ve moved on and have decided to have an adult party for now’). > > Formal invitations (i.e. written ones) are addressed > > Mr. and Mrs. John Smith and Family (bring the kids) > Mr. and Mrs. John Smith (don’t bring the kids) > Mr. John Smith, Ms. Jessica Doe and Family (bring the kids) > Mr. John Smith and Guest (John is single, not seeing anyone seriously enough for you to put on the invitation, but you want him to bring someone if he chooses.) > > Invitation by phone or email should be worded to avoid ambiguity. “We are having some people over on Saturday for a BBQ…would you guys like to come? Of course, the kids are welcome.” > > “We are having a few people over Friday night to hang out. Do you think you can get a sitter?” > > Even when your circle of friends ALWAYS does it one way or the other. Because someday, people may decide to do it a different way. It usually isn’t a big deal. In my entire life, I’ve never been embarrased by bringing the kid, and finding out he wasn’t invited … perhaps because of our circle of friends, or perhaps because our society here is slightly different (the “default setting” here is most definitely that kids are included if you invite someone unless (1) it is obviously not a kid-friendly event; or (2) you tell people). I like the advice I read on that wedding ediquette site I linked to - to not rely on using some formula of words like “Mr. and Mrs. John Smith” means a definite “no kids”, whereas “Mr. and Mrs. John Smith and Family” means “kids okay”. For one, not everyone know about or uses this formula - my brother’s wedding for example (which I’m to go to this summer) was addressed to my wife and I, but he’d be most upset if I didn’t bring his nephew - obviously he knows the kid is comming. I agree it is safest to tell people outright, if you don’t want the kids there, in the invite or in a follow-up call. ---
**Author:** ![alexandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e68b1a/32.png) [@alexandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alexandra)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/158 "2011-05-26T17:15:15Z")
Kids in art galleries & museums with their parents makes me happy. It’s usually the groups of loud bored teenagers left to their own devices who are more annoying, anyway. They don’t belong in screenings of The Road. I actually saw this happen. ☹ Pub culture is different in the UK so it’s not crazy to see a family in the pub at lunchtime. Which may be why I hardly ever see kids in child-inappropriate bars. ---
**Author:** ![Alice\_The\_Goon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Alice\_The\_Goon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alice_The_Goon)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/159 "2011-05-26T17:25:27Z")
Medical marijuana certification centers? ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820/160 "2011-05-26T18:13:59Z")
> [@Electric\_Warrior](#): > > I think this depends entirely on the behavior of the children. If the child is mature enough to be quiet, polite to the servers, order off the regular menu with her parents, and sit through a long meal then she’s old enough to go to a fancy restaurant. Parents just need to be more responsible about deciding whether their children’s behavior is mature. [snip] a rude, nasty 16 year old at a fancy restaurant is just as bad as a whiny 6 year old.) I agree. My three brothers and I were almost always well behaved in restaurants because there was going to be real trouble for causing trouble. Little kids were removed if they couldn’t be quiet, and bigger kids were informed of the consequences that would be waiting for them. I can pick on things my parents did well, but bringing toys for little kids and insisting that bigger kids could manage not to be a bother when waiting in the bank or eating a long lunch was something they did right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-kids-dont-belong/582820.md?page=9)