# Places that won't admit men/women etc... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 20, 2008, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-that-wont-admit-men-women-etc/464441 "2008-09-20T15:53:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-that-wont-admit-men-women-etc/464441/1 "2008-09-20T15:53:22Z")
How do they get around this, I mean places of public accomodation. I have seen health clubs say “No men,” and even gay bars say “no females” (and some lesbian bars say “no men.” Is there anyway to enforce this? Can a place of public accommodation enforce this or is it just a sign. I am interested in the USA, though I did find this article about a gay bar in Melbourne that won the right to ban women and hetrosexuals. I also realize laws apply to PUBLIC accommodation and private clubs are free to discriminate ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-that-wont-admit-men-women-etc/464441/2 "2008-09-20T21:04:14Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > . . . a gay bar in Melbourne that won the right to ban women **and hetrosexuals**. I’m interested in knowing how they verify this. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-that-wont-admit-men-women-etc/464441/3 "2008-09-20T21:11:05Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > I’m interested in knowing how they verify this. You have to fellate the doorman to get in ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-that-wont-admit-men-women-etc/464441/4 "2008-09-20T21:12:03Z")
That’d be the [Laird Hotel](http://www.laird.com.au/about_us.php). > [@](#): > > In 1998 The Laird took the unprecedented step of applying to the Anti Discrimination Board to become the only “Male Only” hotel in Victoria. While many considered this to be an impossible goal, The Laird put forward its case based on its long history of service to the gay community and its position as a social centre for Melbourne and visiting gay men. The ADB recognised the importance of the hotel to the gay community in Melbourne and the exclusion was granted, paving the way for other venues in future. A shame, really. I went there as a straight guy with a gay friend, back in the early 90s. The crowd was pretty mixed. I certainly wasn’t made to feel unwelcome there. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-that-wont-admit-men-women-etc/464441/5 "2008-09-20T21:19:26Z")
It’s pretty much the “private property, my rules” thing. Any private business would be allowed to do any such thing, I would imagine, as long as they continued to make money at it. They could have a dress code, or a minimum salary requirement, or a personal recommendation requirement, or only admit or accept a certain race, or whatever. Someone might cry foul, but as far as I know, it ain’t illegal in the U.S. I’m interested to see if anybody can clarify this or correct my impressions. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-that-wont-admit-men-women-etc/464441/6 "2008-09-20T21:32:58Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > It’s pretty much the “private property, my rules” thing. > > Any private business would be allowed to do any such thing, I would imagine, as long as they continued to make money at it. They could have a dress code, or a minimum salary requirement, or a personal recommendation requirement, or only admit or accept a certain race, or whatever. > > Someone might cry foul, but as far as I know, it ain’t illegal in the U.S. I’m interested to see if anybody can clarify this or correct my impressions. Until 196x in the United States, the constitutional freedom of association would have been presumed to allow anyone to exclude anyone they wanted from private property. Specific statutory enactments ensued that limited this freedom. So, you would look to those statutes to see what grounds of exclusion they had proscribed. Okay, that’s a lazy shorthand answer, but it’s a starting point. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-that-wont-admit-men-women-etc/464441/7 "2008-09-20T21:42:51Z")
Here’s a link to the Melbourne bar from the TimesOnline [http://tinyurl.com/banwomen](http://tinyurl.com/banwomen) ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-that-wont-admit-men-women-etc/464441/8 "2008-09-21T00:06:49Z")
In the case of gyms, I think it pretty clearly fits the private club exclusion, since you have to apply for membership and pay dues. It’s not a public business like a coffee shop. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-that-wont-admit-men-women-etc/464441/9 "2008-09-21T00:28:33Z")
Many state statutes prohibit gender-based discrimination by businesses. Generally speaking, if they have a liquor license, they’re not going to be able to keep you out. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-that-wont-admit-men-women-etc/464441/10 "2008-09-21T01:09:19Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > In the case of gyms, I think it pretty clearly fits the private club exclusion, since you have to apply for membership and pay dues. It’s not a public business like a coffee shop. I think this is also how gay bathhouses exclude women since they have workout equipment and market themselves as a gym. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-that-wont-admit-men-women-etc/464441/11 "2008-09-21T02:03:37Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > I think this is also how gay bathhouses exclude women since they have workout equipment and market themselves as a gym. I would think just the fact that men can walk around naked would allow you to exclude women from a men’s bathhouse, just as you could exclude women from a men’s locker room or restroom. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-that-wont-admit-men-women-etc/464441/12 "2008-09-21T03:07:14Z")
Here’s a challenge for you: find a state law (any state law) mandating that men can only use men’s restrooms or lockerrooms, or women the same. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-that-wont-admit-men-women-etc/464441/13 "2008-09-21T10:54:20Z")
I just did a quick search not going into depth, but I came up with [this](http://law.justia.com/washington/codes/title49/49.60.030.html) Washimgton State statute which declares “[t]he right to be free from discrimination because of race, creed, color, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, or the presence of any sensory, mental, or physical disability or the use of a trained dog guide or service animal by a disabled person” as a civil right, including “[t]he right to the full enjoyment of any of the accommodations, advantages, facilities, or privileges of any place of public resort, accommodation, assemblage, or amusement”. Violations give the victim of the discrimination a civil action to enjoin further violations or to recover damages. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-that-wont-admit-men-women-etc/464441/14 "2008-09-21T17:35:55Z")
The reason I brought it up is because I’ve been reading about some states adopting “transexual bathroom laws,” which is supposed to get at the problem of (for example) a person born a man who feels like a woman but maybe hasn’t gone through the complete transformation process but wants to use the women’s restroom. Some laws propose providing a unisex facility, others allow the affected person decide themselves where it’s most appropriate to go, which of course has people up in arms. However, as far as I know, there are no state laws that mandate that men use the men’s bathroom, and women the women’s bathroom. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/places-that-wont-admit-men-women-etc/464441/15 "2008-09-21T20:27:08Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I would think just the fact that men can walk around naked would allow you to exclude women from a men’s bathhouse, just as you could exclude women from a men’s locker room or restroom. **Curves** is a nationwide chain of all-female gyms (though I highly doubt their customers are allowed to walk around naked outside of the lockerrooms:dubious:). Sex discrimination is held to a lower standard than racial discrimination (which is why seperate lavatories for men & women are permissible , but not for blacks & whites). Do most local building codes even actually require _seperate_ bathroom/changing facilities for men & women? 😕 I’ve seen alot of unisex bathrooms, but they were all single occupancy. Coed bathrooms are quite common at colleges.