# Plagiarism expert catches Coulter **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 3, 2006, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plagiarism-expert-catches-coulter/363022 "2006-07-03T05:03:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plagiarism-expert-catches-coulter/363022/81 "2006-07-06T01:07:30Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > I find myself unable to agree with you … but you seem like a stand-up sort of bloke, so I am going to put some home-made lemon-ginger ice cream on top of that cherry pie. Enjoy! Works for me:) Far better to recognize an impasse than start with “You’re so dumb that you can’t see this that I’m going to insult you and assume superiority.” ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plagiarism-expert-catches-coulter/363022/82 "2006-07-06T02:43:48Z")
**mhendo** , I was annoyed with Coulter until I read your list. Now I am just destroyed. _Doris Kearns Goodwin?_ ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plagiarism-expert-catches-coulter/363022/83 "2006-07-06T02:59:12Z")
> [@Waenara](#): > > From my post #18 in this thread, [this article](http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/For_new_book_Coulter_cribs_adult_0613.html) details the (possibly) plaigiarized list: I don’t really think that list demonstrates plagiarism. If I say “Clinton accused of sexual relations,” I’m sure that exact phrase has been written many times before either verbatim or with mild variations. Same goes for “Bush lied about WMDs” Or, a medical one (like many on the list) “Heart attacks treated by defibrillation” I just made that up. Let me google it: [http://books.google.com/books?q=Heart+attacks+treated+by+defibrillation&as\_brr=0](http://books.google.com/books?q=Heart+attacks+treated+by+defibrillation&as_brr=0) Did I just plagiarize? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plagiarism-expert-catches-coulter/363022/84 "2006-07-06T03:57:22Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > **mhendo** , I was annoyed with Coulter until I read your list. Now I am just destroyed. _Doris Kearns Goodwin?_ Actually, in Kearns Goodwin’s case, the plagiarism itself is not actually the worst of the story. While her plagiarism only really came to light in 2002, it had actually been discovered much earlier, way back in 1987, by one of the authors from whom she lifted passages. Goodwin plagiarised from Lynne McTaggarts book _Kathleen Kennedy: Her Life and Times_, and the plagiarized passages appeared in Goodwin’s _The Fitzgeralds and the Kennedys_. When Goodwin’s book came out, McTaggart was asked to review it, and in doing so she recognized many of her own passages in Goodwin’s work. Now, despite recognizing that her own words had been stolen, McTaggart said nothing. She gave the book what she herself [describes](http://www.acadweb.wwu.edu/senate/ACC/ACCTimesPlagiarArt2002.htm) as “a kind review,” and then proceeded to hire a lawyer and go after Goodwin and her publisher. Here’s where the story gets really nefarious. McTaggart reached and agreement with Goodwin and the publisher, whereby she received a “satisfactory settlement,” on condition that she did not reveal the plagiarism to the general public. Because McTaggart said nothing, Goodwin’s book survived the next 15 years without being outed. As Timothy Noah points out in [Slate](http://www.slate.com/id/2063299/), this effectively made McTaggart “a party to [the] fraud.” As Noah says, McTaggart effectively chose to “Hide the book’s flaws in public, squeeze the book’s author for cash in private.” And by agreeing to pay what was little more than hush money, Goodwin and her publisher compounded Goodwin’s own ethical breach, adding a cover-up to the plagiarism itself. The Kearns Goodwin story, and other cases of academic fraud and controversy, are detailed in Jon Wiener’s excellent book [Historians in Trouble: Plagiarism, Fraud, and Politics in the Ivory Tower](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1565848845/ref=sr_11_1/002-4460282-9236840?ie=UTF8). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plagiarism-expert-catches-coulter/363022/85 "2006-07-06T04:31:22Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I don’t really think that list demonstrates plagiarism. > > If I say “Clinton accused of sexual relations,” I’m sure that exact phrase has been written many times before either verbatim or with mild variations. “Clinton accused of sexual relations” is a phrase. We’re talking about a list of 15 phrases, order unchanged. Wouldn’t you say that’s harder to accept as a coincidence? Coulter doesn’t do lab work last I checked, so she had to get her information from someplace. What do you think are the chances that she came up with her own list of 15 items and it happened to match the list from that site not only in word order and phrasing, but item order? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plagiarism-expert-catches-coulter/363022/86 "2006-07-06T05:11:54Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > What do you think are the chances that she came up with her own list of 15 items and it happened to match the list from that site not only in word order and phrasing, but item order? Well, 15! = 1,307,674,368,000, so on item order alone it’d be about 1 in 1.3 trillion. The word usage probably increases that by a factor of a gadzillion or three. ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plagiarism-expert-catches-coulter/363022/87 "2006-07-06T15:45:05Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Coulter doesn’t do lab work last I checked, so she had to get her information from someplace. What do you think are the chances that she came up with her own list of 15 items and it happened to match the list from that site not only in word order and phrasing, but item order? Now, now. We don’t know for certain that Ann Coulter doesn’t have a laboratory in her basement where she personally uses adult stem cells to cure patients of all kinds of deadly diseases. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plagiarism-expert-catches-coulter/363022/88 "2006-07-06T15:48:11Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > Oh, ick. Really? Ick. I just threw up in my mouth a little bit… :shrug: So a couple of media whores let a shared profession build into a relationship. It’s no worse than James Carville and Mary Matalin _marrying_. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plagiarism-expert-catches-coulter/363022/89 "2006-07-06T15:53:31Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > “Clinton accused of sexual relations” is a phrase. We’re talking about a list of 15 phrases, order unchanged. Wouldn’t you say that’s harder to accept as a coincidence? Coulter doesn’t do lab work last I checked, so she had to get her information from someplace. What do you think are the chances that she came up with her own list of 15 items and it happened to match the list from that site not only in word order and phrasing, but item order? It wasn’t clear to me that the list was in the same order in both places. Every discussion I’ve read has never directly made that claim. Can you confirm? ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plagiarism-expert-catches-coulter/363022/90 "2006-07-06T16:36:37Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > :shrug: So a couple of media whores let a shared profession build into a relationship. It’s no worse than James Carville and Mary Matalin _marrying_. Aside from the poor hatchet faced children they’d produce (were they to have any), that’d pretty much be my reaction to the mental image of Ann Coulter having sex with anyone. I very much doubt the woman would consider it wrong even if it’s proved inconclusively that she plagiarized. Obviously; she keeps doing it. And as long as people keep buying her books and paying her to show up and speak with little flecks of foam at the corners of her mouth, she won’t be disabused of that notion. ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plagiarism-expert-catches-coulter/363022/91 "2006-07-06T16:38:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It wasn’t clear to me that the list was in the same order in both places. Every discussion I’ve read has never directly made that claim. Can you confirm? The article I quoted earlier said: > [@](#): > > The seventh chapter of “Godless: The Church of Liberalism” is devoted to “the left’s war on science,” which - according to Coulter - includes attacking and lying about “the science that is working” so as “to elevate the science that has produced nothing.” Does anyone here have a copy of Coulter’s book? It should be pretty easy to check the seventh chapter and compare it against the website in question [[here](http://www.illinoisrighttolife.org/stemcellsummary.htm), archived 9/03 link [here](http://web.archive.org/web/20030917043912/http://www.illinoisrighttolife.org/stemcellsummary.htm)] ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plagiarism-expert-catches-coulter/363022/92 "2006-07-06T17:40:43Z")
> [@Waenara](#): > > Does anyone here have a copy of Coulter’s book? It should be pretty easy to check the seventh chapter and compare it against the website in question [[here](http://www.illinoisrighttolife.org/stemcellsummary.htm), archived 9/03 link [here](http://web.archive.org/web/20030917043912/http://www.illinoisrighttolife.org/stemcellsummary.htm)] I was going to do the comparison myself, but my university library catalog lists Coulter’s book as a “Newly acquired” book that is currently in cataloging, so i can’t get access to it yet. If it becomes available soon, i’ll check it out. The publisher’s blurb for the book, available on the Library of Congress [website](http://www.loc.gov/catdir/enhancements/fy0659/2006276850-d.html), is interesting, given the current controversy: > [@](#): > > GODLESS is the most explosive book yet from #1 New York Times bestselling author Ann Coulter. In this **completely original** and thoroughly controversial work, Coulter writes, “Liberals love to boast that they are not ‘religious,’ which is what one would expect to hear from the state-sanctioned religion. Bolding mine. ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plagiarism-expert-catches-coulter/363022/93 "2006-07-06T19:51:15Z")
Coulter has boobs? I thought that was impossible for reptiles. Anyway. Forget the lists. The obvious plagarism is those passages where she clearly cut-and-pasted, changing a word here, adding a word there, presumably to “paraphrase” the original. That’s hardly enought to make them valid paraphrases. And even if they were, she is still obligated to credit the source of the original idea. At least, that’s what they taught us at Wossamatta U. And of course, it is simply frivolous to point out that others have been guilty of plagarism, as if that somehow justifies the act. To use what must be by now a trite ripost, that is like saying we should give X a walk on that murder rap because others have committed murder. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plagiarism-expert-catches-coulter/363022/94 "2006-07-06T20:08:33Z")
> [@Rhubarb](#): > > The sobering implication is that this means there are other people out there like Ann, and they’re being published! You’ve never heard of [Regan Books?](http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Regan_Books) ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plagiarism-expert-catches-coulter/363022/95 "2006-07-06T23:08:31Z")
> [@Waenara](#): > > From my post #18 in this thread, [this article](http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/For_new_book_Coulter_cribs_adult_0613.html) details the (possibly) plaigiarized list: I went to Costco during my lunch hour, and checked the text. Following is the list just posted by **Waenara**. I have added the position of each item in the lists posted by Illinois RtL and Coulter, in **bold** > [@](#): > > Following are the fifteen items from Coulter’s list side-by-side with those that appear at the Illinois Right To Life Committee’s website: > > Illinois Right To Life: Spinal cord injury repair (using stem cells from nasal and sinus regions) **(1)** > > Coulter: Repairing spinal cord injuries by using stem cells from nasal and sinus regions. **(2)** > > Illinois Right To Life: Complete reversal of juvenile diabetes in mice using adult spleen cells **(2)** > > Coulter: Completely reversing Type 1 diabetes in mice using adult spleen cells **(3)** > > Illinois Right To Life: Crohn’s Disease put into remission (using patient’s blood stem cells) **(3)** > > Coulter: Putting Crohn’s disease into remission with the patient’s own blood stem cells **(4)** > > Illinois Right To Life: Lupus put into remission (using stem cells from patient’s bloodstream) **(4)** > > Coulter: Putting lupus into remission using stem cells from the patient’s bloodstream **(5)** > > Illinois Right To Life: Repair heart muscle in cases of congestive heart failure (using stem cells from bone marrow) **(6)** > > Coulter: Repairing the heart muscles in patients with congestive heart failure using adult stem cells from bone marrow. **(7)** > > Illinois Right To Life: Repair heart attack damage (using the patient’s own blood stem cells) **(7)** > > Coulter: Repairing heart attack damage with the patient’s own blood stem cells **(8)** > > Illinois Right To Life: Restore bone marrow in cancer patients (using stem cells from umbilical cord blood) **(8)** > > Coulter: Restoring bone marrow in cancer patients using stem cells from umbilical cord blood. **(9)** > > Illinois Right To Life: Restore weak heart muscles (using immature skeletal muscle cells) **(9)** > > Coulter: Restoring weak heart muscles using immature skeletal muscle cells **(10)** > > Illinois Right To Life: Put leukemia into remission (using umbilical cord blood) **(10)** > > Coulter: Putting leukemia into remission using umbilical cord blood **(11)** > > Illinois Right To Life: Heal bone fractures (using bone marrow cells) **(11)** > > Coulter: Healing bone fractures with bone marrow cells. **(12)** > > Illinois Right To Life: Restore a blind man’s sight (using an ocular surface stem-cell transplant & a cornea transplant) **(12)** > > Coulter: Restoring sight in blind people using an ocular surface stem-cell transplant and a cornea transplant **(13)** > > Illinois Right To Life: Treat urinary incontinence (using under arm muscle stem cells) **(14)** > > Coulter: Treating urinary incontinence using stem cells from underarm muscle **(14)** > > Illinois Right To Life: Reverse severe combined immunodeficiency (SCID) (using genetically modified adult stem cells) **(15)** > > Coulter: Reversing severe combined immunodeficiency (SCID) with genetically modified adult cells. **(15)** > > Illinois Right To Life: Restore blood circulation in legs (using bone marrow stem cells) **(16)** > > Coulter: Restoring blood circulation in legs with bone marrow stem cells. **(16)** > > Illinois Right To Life: Treat sickle-cell anemia (using stem cells from unbilical cord blood) **(17)** > > Coulter: Treating sickle-cell anemia using stem cells from umbilical cord blood. **(6)** It appears that there is quite a bit of similarity in the sequence of the line items. I can’t even speculate why she moved the sickle-cell anemia item up the list. Coulter’s list was headed by an item about healing liver tissue, damaged by cirrhosis (IIRC). Her list also did not make use of IRtL’s line item’s 5 and 13, dealing with Parkinson’s Disease, and recovery from stroke, respectively. She did put a footnote (#59) at the end of her list. The footnote refers the reader to an article in the May, 2005 issue of _Citizen Magazine_ (apparently an organ of Focus on the Family). The title of the article cited is [_Why the Media Miss the Stem-Cell Story_](http://www.fumento.com/biotech/stem-cell-story.html). The web page cited in the footnote is [_Understanding Stem Cells_](http://www.fumento.com/sustemcell.html). An October, 2005 addition to the [http://www.fumento.com/sustemcell.html](http://www.fumento.com/sustemcell.html) page is an [article](http://www.fumento.com/biotech/livers.html) about stem cells being used to heal liver damage, and MAY BE her source for line item #1 in her list. I find it odd that her footnote implies that the page on Michael Fumento’s site is a major source for the catalog of achievements that she presents in her list, whereas the article she references by title is silent on every item in the list; and that the reader is left to infer that ONE single item is sourced by a different article accessible from the page. Coulter does mention Right to Life in the acknowledgements, but I cannot remember if it was specifically Illinois RtL. I am certain that her acknowledgement did not direct anyone to the URL for their website. Pretty sloppy work, it looks like to me. I can’t come to any conclusions about the issue, but I would be interested in knowing what kind of sanctions could be appiled against her, given that she tends to crib from people who are grinding the same axe she is anyway, and are (ISTM) hardly likely to press claims for damages. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plagiarism-expert-catches-coulter/363022/96 "2006-07-06T23:36:25Z")
Again, I’m with **BJMoose** : why in the world are people focusing on the list? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plagiarism-expert-catches-coulter/363022/97 "2006-07-06T23:57:05Z")
Beats me. I had a few minutes on my lunch hour, so I collected the information. Seemed a shame to not post what I found. We don’t travel in the same circles (obviously) but if I have any Ann Coulter-related fantasy, it is to be on a public forum with her, and to ask her, in front of everybody, why I’m supposed to have heard of her. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plagiarism-expert-catches-coulter/363022/98 "2006-07-07T00:48:23Z")
[Well, she doesn’t exactly _deny_ the charge.](http://mediamatters.org/items/200607060002) Wow, [she’s as funny as shit in on pie.](http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/welcome.cgi) She did say there was “more to come. . .”. That was a threat, wasn’t it? Hold me! ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plagiarism-expert-catches-coulter/363022/99 "2006-07-07T01:17:19Z")
Well, with **Kaylasdad’s** research it looks to me like she plagiarized. I was not aware of the sequence issue. I can beleive the lists would be similar, but basically identical and in sequence is difficult to discredit. So, as one of the resident conservatives on this board, I hereby invoke my powers to declare a fatwa on Anne Coulter as a result of this egregious offense. As far as I’m concerned she is persona au gratin, and no longer entitled to reap any benefits from the Right Wing Knee-jerk Defense League on this issue. Additionally I declare hyperbolous claims, gratuitous slams based on her looks, or purely fabricated lies used against her as fair and justifiable for the duration of this thread. Ann Coulter: By the power invested in me by whomsoever feels willing to vest such power, and assuming that such power is so invested in me to use at my own discretion and athority by any such granting agency, I do hereby cast you out into the darkness of left wing rhetoric so that the lefties may gorge themselves on the gristly meat of your pale bony plagiarizing ass until such time as they are sated. May God have mercy on you. -Scylla ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plagiarism-expert-catches-coulter/363022/100 "2006-07-07T16:44:50Z")
Ahem. By the powers vested in me by Jay Ward I hereby declare **Scylla** _fatwadist pro tempore extraordinaire_ and deem him worthy of the honors, awards and emolients incumbant of such lofty position, title and rankness. Huzzah, huzzah. (What meat?? She’s all gizzard. Or lizard. Or whatever.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plagiarism-expert-catches-coulter/363022.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plagiarism-expert-catches-coulter/363022.md?page=6)