# Plain as a pikestaff? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 31, 2010, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093 "2010-01-31T05:48:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/1 "2010-01-31T05:48:22Z")
Are reasonably well educated Americans likely to be familiar with, and immediately understand, the expression “plain as a pikestaff,” or is it a purely British (or British and Commonwealth) idiom? ---
**Author:** ![Ace309](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ace309/32/1050_2.png) [@Ace309](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace309)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/2 "2010-01-31T06:31:38Z")
I’m an overeducated geek and I’m not familiar with it. ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/3 "2010-01-31T07:10:08Z")
Can’t say I’ve ever heard it, but I gather it means something cheap, mass produced, and old? Oh, it looks like it means something that’s perfectly clear. The irony is not lost on me. We’d be more likely to say “plain as the nose on his face” although that idiom has been losing popular usage. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/4 "2010-01-31T07:12:55Z")
Actually, if the consensus is that most Americans are _not_ familiar with it, perhaps someone could suggest a similarly striking expression that they _would_ understand, and that that has a similar meaning. The best alternative I have come up with is “plain as day,” but I am not entirely satisfied with it with it (and I am not entirely sure whether Americans will know that either). The meaning is something like “absolutely obvious (or clear),” but I want an expression that is a bit more striking, idiomatic and colorful. ETA: Yes, “plain as the nose on his face” is close, and would be understood in Britain too, but it is not quite right for my needs. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/5 "2010-01-31T07:20:49Z")
Pikes were never used in America. They were more or less rendered obsolete by the bayonet, a development which took hold long before the American Revolution happened. The expression had to have originated in England. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/6 "2010-01-31T07:32:06Z")
There is actualy a cite in the OED which shows that the expression was once used and understood in the US. It’s from the _Atlantic Monthly_, a magazine first published in Boston in 1857 (and still going strong). > [@](#): > > 1873 Atlantic Monthly Dec. 712/1 Everybody..had built their pikestaff-plain houses directly on the sidewalk. Thus it was still current there in the 19th century. It may not be as much used there now but I’d be surprised if it’s died out completely. (Still very common in the UK.) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/7 "2010-01-31T08:18:33Z")
“Plain as a pikestaff” is certainly a widely recognized American idiom. A few post-19th-century American publications where it occurs: [The Outlook](http://books.google.com/books?id=oITjAKG2HYcC) (6 January 1915), an American magazine [Red and Black](http://books.google.com/books?id=95AXAAAAYAAJ) (1919), by Grace S. Richmond [Adam’s Task](http://books.google.com/books?id=4v-fLpAnDFwC) (2007), by Vicki Hearne ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/8 "2010-01-31T08:53:08Z")
“Plain as day.” ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/9 "2010-01-31T12:25:09Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Pikes were never used in America. They were more or less rendered obsolete by the bayonet, a development which took hold long before the American Revolution happened. The expression had to have originated in England. Pikes **were** used, briefly, by the Confederacy, during the first 2 weeks of the American Civil War. Then, replaced with musket, as stated. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/10 "2010-01-31T12:28:52Z")
I’ve never heard “plain as a pikestaff”. “Plain as day” and “plain as the nose on your face” are both used over here, with the meaning “that’s obvious”, but the “plain as pikestaff houses” line makes me think that neither of those two is quite equilvalent. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/11 "2010-01-31T12:50:27Z")
Well, “pikestaff-plain houses” puzzles me a bit too. Maybe the author of that misunderstood the idiom, and thought it meant something like “simple” or “unadorned.” The three examples found by **Kimstu** seem more how I would use it, but two of the three are pretty old. I am more interested in knowing whether Americans would get it (or find it strange) now. The impression I am getting is that most probably would not get it. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/12 "2010-01-31T13:05:36Z")
I have never heard the expression - not even from my British friends. ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/13 "2010-01-31T15:14:56Z")
But its somewhat clear to me to be an old reference to a rather thin homely woman. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/14 "2010-01-31T15:26:05Z")
My mother is English and I read lots of books from England growing up. I’ve also traveled quite a bit in Britain and correspond occasionally with my relatives over there. I have never heard the term. From the context I think it means unadorned like a previous poster said. I’d suggest 'plain Jane", ‘vanilla’ or ‘utilitarian’, or ‘stock standard’. ETA: I looked on line and I was wromg on the meaning. I’d suggest ‘like a turd in a punchbowl’. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/15 "2010-01-31T15:40:00Z")
Another American who’s unfamiliar with the idiom. And like others, I’m not even sure what it means. Is plain being used in the sense of unadorned or obvious? ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/16 "2010-01-31T17:36:26Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Another American who’s unfamiliar with the idiom. And like others, I’m not even sure what it means. Is plain being used in the sense of unadorned or obvious? Here’s the definition from OED: > [@](#): > > 1. In proverbial phrases, as the type of something plain, straight, or obvious, as stiff as a pikestaff, clear as a pikestaff, to call a pikestaff a pikestaff, etc. Now usu. in plain as a pikestaff: And for the adjectival form _pikestaff-plain_: > [@](#): > > pikestaff-plain adj. completely plain or apparent. Mostly it means _obvious_ but of course the word _plain_ can also mean unadorned so I guess it’s natural you could use the phrase in that sense too, but it is rare. ---
**Author:** ![hellpaso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ecae2f/32.png) [@hellpaso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hellpaso)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/17 "2010-01-31T19:35:42Z")
Never heard of it either. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/18 "2010-01-31T19:54:36Z")
Never heard any of the pikestaff expressions. Would a form different from “plain as…” be useful to you? “You’d have to be blind not to see that” comes to mind. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/19 "2010-01-31T19:55:43Z")
Never heard of it over here, but on reading it I was able to guess what it meant fairly quickly. “Plain as day” is a good substitute for American readers. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/20 "2010-01-31T20:16:34Z")
I don’t think I’ve ever encountered it, but I read enough British literature that I might have. In any event, I was able to infer the meaning pretty clearly (pikestaves are, after all, pretty obvious). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093.md?page=2)