# Plain as a pikestaff? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 31, 2010, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093 "2010-01-31T05:48:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/21 "2010-01-31T20:30:41Z")
Count me as another who has never heard it before now and assumed it would mean unadorned. In what way is a pikestaff obvious? Because they’d be hard to hide? ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/22 "2010-01-31T20:36:18Z")
I’ve heard it often enough - mostly in books I read as a child. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/23 "2010-01-31T21:51:57Z")
> [@](#): > > In what way is a pikestaff obvious? Because they’d be hard to hide? Have you ever carried around a ten-foot pole? If you had, you wouldn’t even need to ask. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/24 "2010-01-31T22:31:17Z")
Living in a coastal fishing area in the NW of the US, I think the word pikestaff would refer to what we just call a pike. A long handle, usually made of aluminium now, with a metal point and a hook on the end. The hook is used to catch the lines on floats for crab pots etc. and the point is used to guide floating debris or for docking. Pikes were also used to guide logs in the days when log rafts were common. So is that what you mean by a pikestaff? Does the expression mean ‘plain as a pole?’ ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/25 "2010-01-31T22:46:06Z")
My Father used it, as did my maternal Grandmother. ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/26 "2010-01-31T23:55:57Z")
Nothing to contribute to the debate but my ex once referred to something as being as plain as the pikestaff\* on the end of your nose\*. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/27 "2010-02-01T00:12:48Z")
I don’t remember when I first heard the expression, although it is vanishingly uncommon in the US. But, it was well before I read [The Mote in God’s Eye](http://books.google.com/books?id=lKt5laoj1coC&pg=RA1-PA227&lpg=RA1-PA227&dq=plain+as+a+pikestaff+mote&source=bl&ots=QRvaWbXM1m&sig=5iHW8lBUrbeK0MEv5OD6kNDPin0&hl=en&ei=qBtmS9D6M4yYsgPHxtHmAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAcQ6AEwAA), which is where I recall it’s use best. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/28 "2010-02-01T00:15:48Z")
Could the word “turnpike” be related? Consider– > **[turnpike - Wiktionary, the free dictionary](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/turnpike)** > [@](#): > > [edit] Etymology > Middle English turnpyke, a spiked barrier across a road. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/29 "2010-02-02T14:46:10Z")
I know the phrase from English literature, but it’s very uncommon in the U.S. today. “Plain as the nose on your face” or “plain as can be” are more common here. When looking for something that should be immediately findable, a somewhat old-fashioned phrase I’ve heard more than once is, “If it were a snake, it would’ve bit you.” ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/30 "2010-02-02T14:52:51Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Could the word “turnpike” be related? I believe so: the traveller arrives at the toll-gate, pays the toll, and the gate-keeper turns the pike to allow the traveller onto the toll road. The gate is a pike. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/31 "2010-02-02T15:19:06Z")
I’m British and have never heard the expression before. Where I’m from, “as plain as day” is the dominant form. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/32 "2010-02-04T14:56:09Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Pikes **were** used, briefly, by the Confederacy, during the first 2 weeks of the American Civil War. > > Then, replaced with musket, as stated. Is this a whoosh? If not - who in the world brings a pike to a gun-fight? I mean, it’s better than a knife, I guess - but not by a whole lot. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/33 "2010-02-04T15:25:01Z")
I’m very surprised by these responses. _I’ve_ certainly heard the expression, and read it. I’m very familiar with it, and am amazed that so many Dopers aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/34 "2010-02-04T16:04:05Z")
It will now be a code phrase when Dopers get on Jeopardy. We (Dopers) should make a resolution to restore the phrase to it’s former grandeur by adding it to our conversations today. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/35 "2010-02-04T16:27:39Z")
“That’s fucking obvious” is the more common American phrase. Observations of the painfully obvious may be followed by “No shit, Sherlock,” “Well, duh,” “Thank you, Captain Obvious” and “Ya think?!?!?!?!?” ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/36 "2010-02-04T22:18:24Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > “That’s fucking obvious” is the more common American phrase. > > Observations of the painfully obvious may be followed by “No shit, Sherlock,” “Well, duh,” “Thank you, Captain Obvious” and “Ya think?!?!?!?!?” That is not how “plain as a pikestaff” would normally be used, though. It is not for putting someone down for redundantly stating the obvious, it is for claiming that something is so obvious that to question it would be silly. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/37 "2010-02-04T22:45:31Z")
I’ve never heard “pikestaff,” but I have heard “day” and “the nose on your face.” I also have a vague recollection of hearing “plain as plain can be.” ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/38 "2010-02-04T22:55:49Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Is this a whoosh? If not - who in the world brings a pike to a gun-fight? I mean, it’s better than a knife, I guess - but not by a whole lot. No whoosh. The Confederacy was short on _everything_, except military officers. And prior to the Civil War, & in some cases long afterward, militaries regarded the bayonet as the primary weapon, the bullet, secondary. A military saying of the era: > [@](#): > > The bullet is a fool, the bayonett a fine boy. Given a shortage of guns, the pike was seen as a good stopgap measure. To be abandoned the minute muskets were available. Here is a link to a photo of a Confederate Pike head. [http://www.thetreasuredepot.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction\_config.pl?noframes;read=516](http://www.thetreasuredepot.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction_config.pl?noframes;read=516) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/39 "2010-02-05T02:05:28Z")
Canadian. I’ve never heard or read the expression until this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Visual\_Purple](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/5daacb/32.png) [@Visual\_Purple](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Visual_Purple)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093/40 "2010-02-05T02:40:59Z")
American, here. This is something I’ve read hundreds of times, but doubt I’ve ever actually heard. I’m surprised that it’s unfamiliar to so many. It’s something I might have chosen to say or write to give a sort of old-fashioned Englishy feel to things. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plain-as-a-pikestaff/527093.md?page=3)