# Plainclothes cop demand to know how much money you're carrying. How do you react? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 29, 2017, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plainclothes-cop-demand-to-know-how-much-money-youre-carrying-how-do-you-react/785530 "2017-04-29T22:35:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plainclothes-cop-demand-to-know-how-much-money-youre-carrying-how-do-you-react/785530/21 "2017-05-01T19:23:38Z")
I guess he exercised his rights and asking for a uniformed officer seems reasonable. In fact everyone seemed reasonable in that video. Personally I would have told them whatever they wanted to know, but that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plainclothes-cop-demand-to-know-how-much-money-youre-carrying-how-do-you-react/785530/22 "2017-05-01T19:27:26Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > The one question I have regards the [border search exception,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception) which allows warrantless searches/seizures and (according to Wikipedia, at least) applies at “international borders and their functional equivalent (such as international airports).” > > We all know that you can be subjected to a warrantless search, whether you consent or not, at any time between walking off the plane and leaving the customs area. But does this border search exception actually apply _anywhere_ inside an international airport, e.g. in the area where the OP’s video was filmed? That’s what Customs officers are for. The incident referenced in the OP was persons asserting to be TSA agents. They are there to “(p)rotect the nation’s transportation systems to ensure freedom of movement for people and commerce.” So says the [TSA mission statement](https://www.tsa.gov/about/tsa-mission). They are NOT there to enforce Customs law. Even if I was approached by someone claiming to be an undercover agent of Customs and Border Protection I would still request proof of id and such before talking with them further. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plainclothes-cop-demand-to-know-how-much-money-youre-carrying-how-do-you-react/785530/23 "2017-05-01T19:38:47Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > That’s what Customs officers are for. I’m not sure that really answers the question. If the border search exception is broad enough to let a customs agent do it, then it’s broad enough for anyone. Of course, no Fourth Amendment exception would ever mean that you are compelled to answer a question posed by a police officer. Generally speaking, questions are not the subject of Fourth Amendment protections. Instead, your right to remain silent is a matter for the Fifth Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plainclothes-cop-demand-to-know-how-much-money-youre-carrying-how-do-you-react/785530/24 "2017-05-01T21:01:31Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > If the border search exception is broad enough to let a customs agent do it, then it’s broad enough for anyone. Well, for anyone with the authority of a law enforcement officer. And [the TSA is crystal-clear that their officers do not have (and are not supposed to exercise) law enforcement authority:](http://blog.tsa.gov/2016/07/tsa-myth-busters-do-tsa-officers-arrest.html) > [@TSA's official blog](#): > > From time to time, we see headlines, blogs, and comments from people who believe that TSA officers have the authority to arrest passengers. Well, they do not, so let us set the record straight. > > [ul][li]TSA officers at airport checkpoints do not have the authority to arrest any passenger, regardless of the situation. [/li][li]TSA officers do not carry firearms, billy clubs, mace, stun guns or any other type of weapon. Nor do TSA officers carry handcuffs. They are not authorized to use force in the performance of their duties. [/ul][/li]TSA does call for law enforcement assistance when deemed necessary. So under what circumstance would a TSA officer need to call law enforcement? Here are just a few (not all) of the more common situations: > > [ul][li]When a traveler attempts to evade/avoid screening. [/li][li]When a traveler interferes with the screening process and will not cease the interference. [/li][li]When certain prohibited items, such as firearms and larger knives are discovered. [/li][li]When potential explosive devices are discovered. [/li][li]When illegal narcotics or any other illegal items are discovered. [/li][li]When an officer recognizes a person from a “Be on the Lookout” (BOLO) notification. [/li][li]When an officer believes a child or any other traveler might be traveling against his or her will or if the individual is believed to be in danger. [/li][li]If there is a dispute or conflict between travelers that results in a physical altercation that can’t be resolved. [/ul][/li] > The goal of a TSA officer is to ensure that no explosive or harmful device passes through the security checkpoint. In doing that, TSA officers are expected to treat all travelers with dignity and respect. TSA is a child agency of the Department of Homeland Security, as is [“US Customs and Border Protection”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Customs_and_Border_Protection) - which weirdly does not end in “Agency” or “Administration” or any such bureaucratic descriptor noun. 😕 Anyway, the difference is that CBP officers _are_, as near as I can tell, genuine law enforcement officers who can use force and can bust your ass for importing contraband or entering the country illegally. So now it seems clear that TSA agents, plainclothes or not, lack the authority to detain you or compel you to submit to a search/seizure. CBP, OTOH, clearly have that authority, at least in the customs area. But it’s still not clear whether they have that authority elsewhere on airport grounds. 😕 😕 ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plainclothes-cop-demand-to-know-how-much-money-youre-carrying-how-do-you-react/785530/25 "2017-05-01T21:18:54Z")
I’d have said, “About $20\*. Why are you asking?” The video doesn’t show the initial contact/query. Hard to judge the interaction without that data but I think dude overreacted. Since there’s some “toneyvera” stamp on the video, it’s all a bit suspect, really. \*regardless of how much $ I had with me. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plainclothes-cop-demand-to-know-how-much-money-youre-carrying-how-do-you-react/785530/26 "2017-05-01T21:42:00Z")
> [@somepumpkin](#): > > Since there’s some “toneyvera” stamp on the video, it’s all a bit suspect, really. > > \*regardless of how much $ I had with me. Maybe you noticed the video was uploaded by user tonyvera1902? The “stamp” is a watermark, commonly used to deter copyright infringement. I’m watching [another of Tony Vera’s videos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tgKf6YTKIA) right now in which he’s standing up to cops trying to browbeat him (interesting to watch, actually; the cops do understand the limits of their authority, and they try pretty hard to intimidate him into shutting down his camera and leaving and Mr. Vera behaves in a not-entirely-diplomatic manner, but in the end they leave him alone). Apparently he’s got a career/hobby filming celebrities at LAX, and happened to be there to catch the OP’s conflict. ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plainclothes-cop-demand-to-know-how-much-money-youre-carrying-how-do-you-react/785530/27 "2017-05-02T02:07:27Z")
Oh yes, I noticed tonyvera had a “channel” but I didn’t click. Now that you’ve summarized, I’m again (rhetorically) questioning how advantageous it would be for him to _stage_\* these encounters to get more clicks. I’m not calling any fraud, but I could understand one using some _encouragement_ to make his point. \*for various definitions of “stage”. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plainclothes-cop-demand-to-know-how-much-money-youre-carrying-how-do-you-react/785530/28 "2017-05-02T02:43:16Z")
“Fuck you, and what’s your badge number, punk?” There’s an awful lot to be said for being a middle-aged white guy. :o -OR- Eight bux, American, sir. It depends. ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plainclothes-cop-demand-to-know-how-much-money-youre-carrying-how-do-you-react/785530/29 "2017-05-02T02:52:44Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > The one question I have regards the [border search exception,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception) which allows warrantless searches/seizures and (according to Wikipedia, at least) applies at “international borders and their functional equivalent (such as international airports).” > > We all know that you can be subjected to a warrantless search, whether you consent or not, at any time between walking off the plane and leaving the customs area. But does this border search exception actually apply _anywhere_ inside an international airport, e.g. in the area where the OP’s video was filmed? I am not a lawyer, but I have read about this exemption. To answer the question of where does the border search exception apply-as defined by the Supreme Court anywhere within 200 miles of any international border. No border crossing required. Which includes the majority of the US population. There is one consolation, the exception only applies (as I understand it) to actual Customs Officers enforcing customs law. The local cops or the FBI can’t make use of this exception. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plainclothes-cop-demand-to-know-how-much-money-youre-carrying-how-do-you-react/785530/30 "2017-05-02T19:25:04Z")
I didn’t watch all the video, but loved that guy. Cheerfully assertive without crossing over in crankhood. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plainclothes-cop-demand-to-know-how-much-money-youre-carrying-how-do-you-react/785530/31 "2017-05-02T20:14:11Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > My reaction would be to say “None of your business” and keep walking. If they stop me from walking away, I give my name, address, and birthdate. If they ask me again how much money I have, I repeat “none of your business”. If they ask again, I stare at them without saying anything. This. I would add an expletive. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plainclothes-cop-demand-to-know-how-much-money-youre-carrying-how-do-you-react/785530/32 "2017-05-02T20:20:33Z")
Or maybe “twenty bucks, same as in town” and see if he got the reference. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plainclothes-cop-demand-to-know-how-much-money-youre-carrying-how-do-you-react/785530/33 "2017-05-02T20:24:05Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Well, for anyone with the authority of a law enforcement officer. And [url=[Blog | Transportation Security Administration](http://blog.tsa.gov/2016/07/tsa-myth-busters-do-tsa-officers-arrest.html)]the TSA is crystal-clear that their officers do not have (and are not supposed to exercise) law enforcement authority. I’m not sure that their statutory or regulatory arrest authority (to the extent it is defined somewhere outside a blog post) has any bearing on whether the Fourth Amendment prevents them from stopping or searching you. ISTM, having arrest authority is what makes you immune from certain kinds of tort claims. But it doesn’t automatically make it a Fourth Amendment violation if some government actor without such authority nevertheless searches or seizes you. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plainclothes-cop-demand-to-know-how-much-money-youre-carrying-how-do-you-react/785530/34 "2017-05-02T20:31:28Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I’m not sure that their statutory or regulatory arrest authority (to the extent it is defined somewhere outside a blog post) has any bearing on whether the Fourth Amendment prevents them from stopping or searching you. > > ISTM, having arrest authority is what makes you immune from certain kinds of tort claims. But it doesn’t automatically make it a Fourth Amendment violation if some government actor without such authority nevertheless searches or seizes you. Would it be a citizen’s arrest? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plainclothes-cop-demand-to-know-how-much-money-youre-carrying-how-do-you-react/785530/35 "2017-05-02T21:19:50Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Would it be a citizen’s arrest? > > Regards, > Shodan > **[Citizen's arrest | Use of force](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen%27s_arrest_in_the_United_States#Use_of_force)** > > In general, a private person is considered to be justified in using non-deadly force upon another if they reasonably believe that: (1) such other person is committing a felony, or a misdemeanor amounting to a breach of the peace; and (2) the force used is necessary to prevent further commission of the offense and to apprehend the offender. The force must be reasonable under the circumstances to restrain the individual arrested. This includes the nature of the offense and the amount of force requi... Citizen’s arrest is only allowed if the arrestor reasonably believes the arrestee has actually committed a felony or misdemeanor. If Random Citizen just walks up to a guy and asks him how much money he’s carrying, and the guy says “piss off”, I don’t think Random Citizen can legally conduct a citizen’s arrest solely on the basis of that interaction. Also, as **Richard Parker** points out, cops have some legal protection if they get the facts wrong; Random Citizen does not, and may be subject to a lawsuit if he’s wrong about whether his arrestee has actually done anything. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plainclothes-cop-demand-to-know-how-much-money-youre-carrying-how-do-you-react/785530/36 "2017-05-02T22:56:13Z")
If my suitcases are full of heroin … I’m handing the entire million dollars to the TSA agent … that’s why the drug lord gave me the cash in the first place … ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plainclothes-cop-demand-to-know-how-much-money-youre-carrying-how-do-you-react/785530/37 "2017-05-03T00:10:04Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > If the police come up to you\*, then start recording immediately. FWIW, Most, if not all, the international airports I’ve been in recently, prohibit recording at the customs and security areas. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plainclothes-cop-demand-to-know-how-much-money-youre-carrying-how-do-you-react/785530/38 "2017-05-03T14:52:59Z")
I didn’t watch the whole video. Was it confirmed that the two men were in fact plainclothes TSA officers? As opposed to criminals attempting to run some sort of scam or intimidation scheme? ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plainclothes-cop-demand-to-know-how-much-money-youre-carrying-how-do-you-react/785530/39 "2017-05-03T15:11:51Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > FWIW, Most, if not all, the international airports I’ve been in recently, prohibit recording at the customs and security areas. The guy in the video isn’t in the customs and security areas. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plainclothes-cop-demand-to-know-how-much-money-youre-carrying-how-do-you-react/785530/40 "2017-05-03T15:27:20Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > I didn’t watch the whole video. Was it confirmed that the two men were in fact plainclothes TSA officers? As opposed to criminals attempting to run some sort of scam or intimidation scheme? A uniformed officer eventually showed up. The traveler chatted with him for a bit before leaving, and I don’t recall the officer arresting the TSA guys that started the whole confrontation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plainclothes-cop-demand-to-know-how-much-money-youre-carrying-how-do-you-react/785530.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plainclothes-cop-demand-to-know-how-much-money-youre-carrying-how-do-you-react/785530.md?page=3)