# Plame Court Action Denied **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 20, 2007, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plame-court-action-denied/412497 "2007-07-20T05:15:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2007, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plame-court-action-denied/412497/21 "2007-07-20T13:47:09Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] Perhaps they are and should be immune from unintentional damage caused in the course of normal duties. But the woman could sue for damages if the firemen surrounded her car and started working it over with fire axes, which is a little closer parallel to the Plame case. [/QUOTE] Not really. She could sue the county, and probably win. But the firefighters wouldn’t be sued. Of course, what they did would be a crime, so they could be prosecuted. But Plame hasn’t fully been satisfied on that front, I’d guess. Suing the United States is a bit different than suing Cheney, Libby, Rove and Armitage, which is what Wilson and Plame were doing. And I see that **Gfactor** has noted that this difference was a big sticking point for the court. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2007, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plame-court-action-denied/412497/22 "2007-07-20T13:51:58Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Not really. She could sue the county, and probably win. But the firefighters wouldn’t be sued. [/quote] I believe immunity only applies to actions within the scope of employment. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2007, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plame-court-action-denied/412497/23 "2007-07-20T14:05:52Z")
[QUOTE=Richard Parker] I believe immunity only applies to actions within the scope of employment. [/QUOTE] In the case of the Vice-President, that scope is pretty wide, and would include rebutting op-eds written by administration critics. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2007, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plame-court-action-denied/412497/24 "2007-07-20T14:10:07Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] In the case of the Vice-President, that scope is pretty wide, and would include rebutting op-eds written by administration critics. [/QUOTE] Indeed. I was referring to your statement that the firefighters couldn’t be sued. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2007, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plame-court-action-denied/412497/25 "2007-07-20T14:11:27Z")
Sorry. My analogies are well mixed up by now. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2007, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plame-court-action-denied/412497/26 "2007-07-20T14:12:11Z")
So what exactly is the appropriate jurisdiction to file such a case? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2007, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plame-court-action-denied/412497/27 "2007-07-20T14:20:47Z")
I think if she had sued the government for loss of employment, she would have succeeded. She may still if she pursues this route. Given that only one conviction was arrived at in this whole matter, and that it is essentially over, I don’t think suing individuals in the government would go anywhere. Also, I think there are some journalists whose liability on this thing is wide open. Plame isn’t suing them, though they were as much a part of this mess as anyone - a leaker has to leak to someone. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2007, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plame-court-action-denied/412497/28 "2007-07-20T14:24:55Z")
[QUOTE=ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies] So what exactly is the appropriate jurisdiction to file such a case? [/QUOTE] The Court held that the common law claim was covered by the Federal Tort Claims Act. The Act requires potential plaintiffs to present their claims to the agency involved before the plaintiff can file suit: > [@](#): > > (a) An action shall not be instituted upon a claim against the United States for money damages for injury or loss of property or personal injury or death caused by the negligent or wrongful act or omission of any employee of the Government while acting within the scope of his office or employment, unless the claimant shall have first presented the claim to the appropriate Federal agency and his claim shall have been finally denied by the agency in writing and sent by certified or registered mail. The failure of an agency to make final disposition of a claim within six months after it is filed shall, at the option of the claimant any time thereafter, be deemed a final denial of the claim for purposes of this section. The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to such claims as may be asserted under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure by third party complaint, cross-claim, or counterclaim. [28 U.S. Code § 2675 - Disposition by federal agency as prerequisite; evidence | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode28/usc_sec_28_00002675----000-.html) ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2007, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plame-court-action-denied/412497/29 "2007-07-20T14:54:46Z")
[QUOTE=bob\_co] Plame was not covert. There was no crime in the first place. She was covert, then she wasn’t. The court has spoken. Suck it. [/QUOTE] You know what the sad thing is? The OP thinks this is a _good_ thing. Whether Plame was covert or not isn’t the big deal here- the fact of the matter is that she was outed specifically in retaliation for her actions. The OP’s gleefulness at liberals (in general) having to “suck it” because they “lost” speaks volumes about the OP’s political maturity levels (and what levels of maturity he expects from his government). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2007, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plame-court-action-denied/412497/30 "2007-07-20T16:18:16Z")
I’m a little disappointed in you guys. Where’s the generosity, the compassion? Circumstances as have turned the tighty rightys into buttplugs with legs, can’t we afford to let the have a bit of sunshine, now and again? I, for one, intend to seethe. I’m seething right now, and rueing the day! Oh, rue! Oh, woe! ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2007, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plame-court-action-denied/412497/31 "2007-07-20T16:46:07Z")
[QUOTE=Lightnin’] Whether Plame was covert or not isn’t the big deal here- the fact of the matter is that she was outed specifically in retaliation for her actions. [/QUOTE] Actually, she was not. She was outed because her husband was more interested in facts than in toeing the party line. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2007, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plame-court-action-denied/412497/32 "2007-07-20T16:48:03Z")
[QUOTE=tdn] Actually, she was not. She was outed because her husband was more interested in facts than in toeing the party line. [/QUOTE] Well, yeah. I blame lack of caffeine. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_co](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@bob\_co](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_co)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2007, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plame-court-action-denied/412497/33 "2007-07-21T03:01:55Z")
I was just really wondering why the topic didn’t exist yet. I believe there is alot of good debate here that is not my area of expertise – Law --. And yes, I was mocking the style of the sort of posts that I see from the way left leaners. On the other hand the politics of this matter is a never ending chase back to a chicken and an egg of who wronged who first in the history of the 2 party system. I provided many sources on the one of the Scooter discussions that were disregarded out of hand stating that Joe Wilson had a political political motivations in retaliation before this retaliation. I’m just glad that no more tax money is being spent on this one. If Plame sued the government, it would be you and I getting sued. Well, paying the judgement in the end. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_co](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@bob\_co](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_co)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2007, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plame-court-action-denied/412497/34 "2007-07-21T03:14:05Z")
Oh yeah, I did find yet another source. > **[But Iraq did try to buy uranium in Niger.](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2006/04/but-iraq-did-try-to-buy-uranium-in-niger.html)** > > In the late 1980s, the Iraqi representative to the International Atomic Energy Agency—Iraq's senior public envoy for nuclear matters, in effect—was a... ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2007, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plame-court-action-denied/412497/35 "2007-07-21T03:16:24Z")
Hitchens isn’t a cite. Hitchens is a sot. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2007, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plame-court-action-denied/412497/36 "2007-07-21T03:24:38Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Hitchens isn’t a cite. Hitchens is a sot. [/QUOTE] Be fair now. In areas of his particular expertise, he is quite reliable. I find him generally spot on in matters of literary criticism. Also cocktail recipes. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2007, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plame-court-action-denied/412497/37 "2007-07-21T03:36:59Z")
[QUOTE=bob\_co] Oh yeah, I did find yet another source. > **[But Iraq did try to buy uranium in Niger.](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2006/04/but-iraq-did-try-to-buy-uranium-in-niger.html)** > > In the late 1980s, the Iraqi representative to the International Atomic Energy Agency—Iraq's senior public envoy for nuclear matters, in effect—was a... [/QUOTE] > **[David Corn takes on Christopher Hitchens.](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2006/09/david-corn-takes-on-christopher-hitchens.html)** > > Click  here  to read Christopher Hitchens' response. > [@](#): > > Sorry, Hitch—You’re Wrong About Niger ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2007, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plame-court-action-denied/412497/38 "2007-07-21T03:42:57Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] In the case of the Vice-President, that scope is pretty wide, and would include rebutting op-eds written by administration critics. [/QUOTE] Or treason as it’s also called in this case. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2007, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plame-court-action-denied/412497/39 "2007-07-21T03:45:44Z")
Tomato, painful rectal itch… ---
**Author:** ![bob\_co](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@bob\_co](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_co)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2007, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plame-court-action-denied/412497/40 "2007-07-21T04:28:36Z")
OK GIGO, it’s the very same rat hole to chase down. My sources are better than yours – no they are not. The very same point is valid here that I was trying to make before. This discussion is if the party wars should be able to bite into our wallets. From the legal folk above, it looks like the people involved in the case are immune while you are I are not immune from paying Plame her damages. Rodney King style. I wish I had the number for what every person in LA paid to that guy for getting beat up. Retaliations for retaliations for retaliation with the taxpayer paying for it. Should the Governemt of the US sue Joe Wilson for incompetence? He was there, it was his job, and he failed willingly or not. Maybe we should sue Plame for nepotism for getting her hubby the job that they thought was a non-job. Maybe the country of Iraq could sue Plame for the whole war that might have not happened if the intelligence in Niger was believable because there was an compitent source present. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plame-court-action-denied/412497.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plame-court-action-denied/412497.md?page=3)