# Plan to see Nolan's The Odyssey this weekend **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [July 16, 2026, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-to-see-nolans-the-odyssey-this-weekend/1031722 "2026-07-16T16:25:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2026, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-to-see-nolans-the-odyssey-this-weekend/1031722/181 "2026-08-04T08:36:12Z")
> [@Lantern2](#): > > Overall I liked it though I was not convinced by the central premise of the breakdown of “Zeus’s law” as embodied in the sack of Troy helping cause the bronze age collapse. It’s an interesting concept , though of course both ahistorical and aHomeric, but I don’t think the film really developed it thematically other than Odysseus just talking about it. > [@Joyce Carol Oates](#): > > One would expect a translator, of all people, beholden to a text, in service to a text, to be just a wee bit more thoughtful & respectful of others who are acting in good faith I think this gets to a really interesting point about the movie, which is that contra Oates, Nolan was not in particular in service to the text, or engaging with it in “good faith” - i.e. attempting to in some way reproduce its message for a modern audience. By introducing the the Zeus’s law theme - indeed the distorted version which smuggles in “treat others as you would be treated” rather than simply “treat others well for they might be the god” - Nolan is pretty radically reimagining the Odyssey. As @Lantern2 says, this is aHomeric - throughout Homer, Odysseus’ tricksiness is celebrated, his manipulation of others is one of his defining characteristics (the other is that he is a city-sacker, which is pretty explicitly in favour of the kind of behaviour Nolan’s Odysseus bewails) and there is no suggestion that the Trojan Horse ruse is any kind of transgression. Even more fundamentally, nowhere in Homer and Greek myth will you find that transgressing the rules leads to social collapse. The Furies pursue individual vendettas against such as Orestes, the gods punish the hubris of any person who puts themselves above their mortal place, at worst cities might get collectively punished for their leader’s flaws but the whole collapse of society is not on the cards. For all Nolan took flack for casting choices and “making Homer woke”, Musk and the Magabrosphere seem to have missed what he’s really doing, which is promoting a conservatism so old-fashioned as to nowadays be completely radical. Norms matter! Standards matter! You must not declare war on a pretext! You should never tear up international rules-based order for temporary advantage! You cannot destroy the lives of your children! And not because of moral sensibility, but because the consequences of abandoning the rules is the destruction of all you hold dear. Nolan takes the episodes of the Odyssey and puts them on screen tremendously well, but all in the service of a very radical transformation of its themes to make a point that is well worth making, but has very little to do with the Homeric worldview. Which Wilson, as @MrDibble says, does such a good job of laying bare. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2026, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-to-see-nolans-the-odyssey-this-weekend/1031722/182 "2026-08-04T10:12:21Z")
To be fair, if ever there was a clear case of “the author is dead”, it’s gotta be Homer. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2026, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-to-see-nolans-the-odyssey-this-weekend/1031722/183 "2026-08-04T11:33:41Z")
Thank you, this helped. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2026, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-to-see-nolans-the-odyssey-this-weekend/1031722/184 "2026-08-04T13:04:20Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > To be fair, if ever there was a clear case of “the author is dead”, it’s gotta be Homer. Hah! I heard he just nodded off. In terms of the episodes that Nolan used, it was certainly all the hits - Circe, Calypso, Cyclops, Charybdis etc - but I did miss the Naussica interlude (after all the calamity and high adventure, let’s just spend some time with the princess and her companions playing ball games while Odysseus hides naked in the bushes\*, then give the guy some clothes and a good meal and let him sob his heart out). But the main thing I missed is the actual gods! Wouldn’t have worked for Nolan’s theme of “we did this to ourselves” but I just genuinely want to see Poseidon raging at this puny mortal, divines on Mount Olympus haggling over the lives of their favourites while acting out soap opera level petty jealousies and affairs, show me these uncaring forces whose whims can raise us up or destroy us. \*Do the whole scene to Yakkity Sax you cowards ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2026, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-to-see-nolans-the-odyssey-this-weekend/1031722/185 "2026-08-04T13:19:28Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > show me these uncaring forces whose whims can raise us up or destroy us We did get a lot of that. It’s just that most of it was the sea. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2026, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-to-see-nolans-the-odyssey-this-weekend/1031722/186 "2026-08-04T13:32:58Z")
Yeah, but who controls the sea eh? _How deep does this thing go???_ I did quite like how it was clear that the characters believed in the gods and interpreted thunder/storms as divine intervention, but making it apparent to the audience that nah, that’s just nonsense takes something away, I think. Imagine doing e.g. a Moses/Exodus story where the plagues and parting of the sea were explained away - what would be the point of the tale? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2026, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-to-see-nolans-the-odyssey-this-weekend/1031722/187 "2026-08-04T13:43:07Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Yeah, but who controls the sea eh? > > _How deep does this thing go???_ > [@](#): > > The Mediterranean Sea has an average depth of 1,500 m (4,900 ft) and the deepest recorded point is 5,109 ± 1 m (16,762 ± 3 ft) in the [Calypso Deep](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calypso_Deep "Calypso Deep") in the [Ionian Sea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionian_Sea "Ionian Sea"). I think it’s made clear that the gods do exist - I mean, Athena left Odysseus a beggar’s cloak, and the prophecies about Poseidon and Apollo etc all came true. Plus they literally went to the afterlife. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2026, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-to-see-nolans-the-odyssey-this-weekend/1031722/188 "2026-08-04T13:44:01Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > but making it apparent to the audience that nah, that’s just nonsense takes something away, I think. ?? It’s _not_ apparent to the audience that the Gods are nonsense. You _can_ have that interpretation, but I never thought the Gods in the film weren’t real. I think that’s a real stretch to see the film that way. I mean they interact with all kind of monsters, and witches, it’s not a stretch that the gods are real too. It could be a reading that Odysseus is imagining Athena, but she gave him her cloak when he landed at Ithaca. That’s a corporeal item that was not there when he landed. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2026, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-to-see-nolans-the-odyssey-this-weekend/1031722/189 "2026-08-04T13:51:37Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Nolan takes the episodes of the Odyssey and puts them on screen tremendously well, but all in the service of a very radical transformation of its themes to make a point that is well worth making, but has very little to do with the Homeric worldview. Which Nolan never denied. He never claimed that he was making the “definitive” Odyssey, whatever that is, only that he was telling the story he wanted to tell. Personally, I went to the theater to see Nolan, not Homer. At this point in time, the former interests me more than the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2026, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-to-see-nolans-the-odyssey-this-weekend/1031722/190 "2026-08-04T15:50:04Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Which Nolan never denied. He never claimed that he was making the “definitive” Odyssey, whatever that is, only that he was telling the story he wanted to tell. Yes, this wasn’t a criticism ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2026, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-to-see-nolans-the-odyssey-this-weekend/1031722/191 "2026-08-04T16:03:25Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Athena left Odysseus a beggar’s cloak > [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > she gave him her cloak when he landed at Ithaca. That’s a corporeal item that was not there when he landed. Hands up, I completely missed the bit with the cloak so fair enough. It is then some very light touch gods. In terms of the afterlife, witches, and monsters, yes those are real but so much more real than Poseidon - at best a roll of thunder and a storm - or Zeus - maybe some thunder aimed at Calypso (who herself pointedly fails to answer the question “are you a goddess”). I take the point that Athena has some direct input but it’s still a far cry from the interventionist gods of the poem. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2026, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-to-see-nolans-the-odyssey-this-weekend/1031722/192 "2026-08-04T16:12:51Z")
Ok, that said I went looking for the beach scene to rewatch and couldn’t find it but did find this which suggests that Athena wasn’t meant to be real: [https://screenrant.com/the-odyssey-ending-troy-sacking-athena-reveal-explained-christopher-nolan/](https://screenrant.com/the-odyssey-ending-troy-sacking-athena-reveal-explained-christopher-nolan/) > _ **Matt Damon: "To him, she’s there. She’s what he has wrought, and she’s living in his head, like his conscience. But we played it like an interior monologue, almost like a soliloquy. She’s gone when the story tells you who she really was.** _ > _ **Christopher Nolan: "The way Telemachus interacts with Athena in the poem, you feel this idea of projection, of seeking the divine in everything around us and also in other people. That’s so important to the way that society had to hold together because in this world, as soon as you leave the house, you’re at the mercy of strangers.** _ > _ **If you’re going out on a journey for more than a day or two, you’re turning up and saying, ‘Feed me, clothe me, help me.’ And so there has to be this glue, this binding principle of ‘I will treat you as if you were a god in disguise, as if I might be judged by the gods for the way I treat you.’ And the poem gives you that. It also gives you the more literal version, but it’s constantly alluding to the idea of gods in disguise walking amongst us. That, to me, felt like the key."** _ Which doesn’t explain where the cloak came from but I think the reveal that she is a manifestation of his guilt is more in keeping with the big theme. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2026, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-to-see-nolans-the-odyssey-this-weekend/1031722/193 "2026-08-04T16:32:27Z")
Haven’t seen it yet, but I find it interesting that Matt Damon’s stunt double was a 4’6" woman. Apparently when his character is fighting giants, they used her as a double and forced perspective to exaggerate the difference in size. I won’t pay to see it on IMAX, I’ll see it whenever it becomes available for free on one of my streaming packages. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2026, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-to-see-nolans-the-odyssey-this-weekend/1031722/194 "2026-08-04T16:32:51Z")
Also, while im firing out random things that occur to me: In the poem, they go to Hades and meet Achilles, who explains bitterly that his choice to live a short but glorious life as a great warrior was in retrospect, really dumb. Now hes dead forever, he’d rather be a lowly swineherd eating scraps but alive than the most admired of the dead. That gets swapped for Sinon’s confrontation with Odysseus, but could there have been room for both? Because that fits so well with Nolan’s theme! War isn’t glorious, this macho oo-ra check out my kill count, do you even slaughter bro bullshit is poisonous nonsense, stay home and raise pigs like a grownup. ---
**Author:** ![Calder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Calder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calder)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2026, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-to-see-nolans-the-odyssey-this-weekend/1031722/195 "2026-08-04T16:33:02Z")
I liked the new _Odyssey_ adaptation, but I never loved it. The core problem is that the film strips out the single most defining emotional through‑line of the poem — **Odysseus’ delight in his own cleverness**. The near‑absence of the gods didn’t bother me. That’s a perfectly valid artistic choice. What bothered me was the transformation of Odysseus from Homer’s **joyful trickster** into a dour, remorse‑soaked man who seems to take no pleasure in anything he accomplishes. The tricks are still there, but the _joy_ is gone. In Homer, Odysseus is a man who **revels** in his victories. He’s the rare hero whose defining trait isn’t strength or piety but _wit_, and he knows it. He celebrates it. He performs it. A few examples: - **The Cyclops escape** — After pulling off one of the great heists in ancient literature, Odysseus can’t resist taunting Polyphemus from the safety of his ship. Reckless, hilarious, absolutely in character. - **The Sirens** — He literally has himself tied to the mast so he can _enjoy_ the forbidden song. He wants the thrill, the experience, the story. - **Circe** — Even in darker moments, his interactions with Circe have a sly, knowing quality. He’s negotiating, maneuvering, performing his identity as the clever man. Across the poem, Odysseus is someone who takes pleasure in being the smartest person in the room. He’s not just a survivor; he’s a performer of cunning. That’s why his homecoming works — he doesn’t simply endure suffering, he _outwits_ it. Now, here’s the part the movie _does_ get right: I **like** the idea that the Trojan Horse trick ends the ancient code of guest‑right and hospitality and has severe consequences for Odysseus and his family. That thematic link to the suitors — men violating hospitality in his own home — is sharp, coherent, and genuinely clever. It’s a good interpretive move. But the film treats that idea as the **only** emotional note in the entire story. Everything becomes fallout, guilt, and grim consequence. Odysseus is reduced to a man crushed by the weight of his own cleverness, rather than someone who experiences both the cost _and_ the thrill of it. The poem gives us a man who suffers, yes — but who also **laughs** , **boasts** , **schemes** , and **delights** in the world’s challenges. The movie gives us a man who seems crushed by them. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2026, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-to-see-nolans-the-odyssey-this-weekend/1031722/196 "2026-08-04T16:38:35Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > That gets swapped for Sinon’s confrontation with Odysseus, but could there have been room for both? Because that fits so well with Nolan’s theme! War isn’t glorious, this macho oo-ra check out my kill count, do you even slaughter bro bullshit is poisonous nonsense, stay home and raise pigs like a grownup. Yeah, I see the point and agree that Achilles’ message is a strong one as the theme goes, but in the context of the movie itself as a standalone vehicle - who is Achilles? He doesn’t appear, isn’t mentioned, just flat out is not a character. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2026, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-to-see-nolans-the-odyssey-this-weekend/1031722/197 "2026-08-04T16:46:44Z")
Yes, you’d have to show Achilles in flashback in full warrior mode, but it neednt take much. I think three speeches from the dead might have felt too much though. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2026, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-to-see-nolans-the-odyssey-this-weekend/1031722/198 "2026-08-04T16:49:43Z")
Yeah, but then you have two warrior heroes in the story. Works when you have thousands of lines and 50+ hours of recitation time, harder to jam into one movie. Any way I see it, Achilles’ presence randomizes the story more than it helps. Personally, I thought Sinon’s speech was so powerful that anything else would take away, not add. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2026, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-to-see-nolans-the-odyssey-this-weekend/1031722/199 "2026-08-04T16:59:10Z")
Sinons speech is powerful and does a big part of what Calder points out, which is making it clear that Odysseus hates himself for his trick on Sinon and the Trojans (although he does then reluctantly trick his crew into choosing Scylla). But that scene also had Agammemnon laying out how he too paid the price for his transgressions, and warning Odysseus about homecomings. So I’m a bit torn on a third warrior/comrade in arms making a speech, might be overkill, might be rule of three. Anyhow, this isn’t me saying Nolan you Oscar winning fool what the hell are you playing at, its just a random reflection. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2026, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-to-see-nolans-the-odyssey-this-weekend/1031722/200 "2026-08-04T17:14:46Z")
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