# Plan would make Bush leader of entire government (not just executive) in an emergency **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 21, 2007, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988 "2007-05-21T21:48:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/1 "2007-05-21T21:48:53Z")
Story [here.](http://progressive.org/mag_wx051807) > [@](#): > > In a new National Security Presidential Directive, Bush lays out his plans for dealing with a “catastrophic emergency.”Under that plan, he entrusts himself with leading the entire federal government, not just the Executive Branch. And he gives himself the responsibility “for ensuring constitutional government.” > > He laid this all out in a document entitled “National Security Presidential Directive/NSPD 51” and “Homeland Security Presidential Directive/HSPD-20.” > > \ > > The subject of the document is entitled “National Continuity Policy.” > > It defines a “catastrophic emergency” as “any incident, regardless of location, that results in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the U.S. population, infrastructure, environment, economy, or government function.” > > This could mean another 9/11, or another Katrina, or a major earthquake in California, I imagine, since it says it would include “localized acts of nature, accidents, and technological or attack-related emergencies.” > > The document emphasizes the need to ensure “the continued function of our form of government under the Constitution, including the functioning of the three separate branches of government,” it states. > > But it says flat out: “The President shall lead the activities of the Federal Government for ensuring constitutional government.” > > The document waves at the need to work closely with the other two branches, saying there will be “a cooperative effort among the executive, legislative, and judicial branches of the Federal Government.” But this effort will be “coordinated by the President, as a matter of comity with respect to the legislative and judicial branches and with proper respect for the constitutional separation of powers.” > > Among the efforts coordinated by the President would ensuring the capability of the three branches of government to “provide for orderly succession” and “appropriate transition of leadership.” > > \ > > The document also contains “classified Continuity Annexes.” Presidential Directives in question [here.](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.html) Is this routine federal emergency planning, or an unprecedented power grab? What’s this about “comity” between the three branches?! They’re not **supposed** to work in comity, they’re supposed to check each other! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/2 "2007-05-21T22:23:59Z")
Patriots! To the barricades! To your tents, O Israel! _No pasaran!_ Won’t get fooled again! **Fuck _this_ shit!** … (I may post a more sensible opinion when I calm down. \*If \*I calm down…) ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/3 "2007-05-21T22:28:19Z")
Correct me if I’m wrong, but that order doesn’t mean crap outside of the Executive branch, right? I mean, the President doesn’t have the Constitutional power to do this kind of thing, and I don’t see the military just acqueiscing to this if something were to happen that would put it into play. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/4 "2007-05-21T22:30:17Z")
I have long wondered if Bush would create a crisis, or at least allow one to occur, or even simply release info on the various crises that occur regularly that we never hear about, in order to keep a lock on the executive. For a long time I thought that Bush was simply acting the fool to keep the people complacent so that he could privatize a lot of the government, send it into bankruptcy and then with the power elite banking structure and oil infrastructure solidify Daddy’s New World Order plans. A lot of people glaze over at Conspiracy theories, but the tale of the Bush clan’s rise to power follows a pretty common thread. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/5 "2007-05-21T22:30:21Z")
Ohh so what? He issued a directive from the White House. Has it been 5 minutes since the last “I hate Bush Thread”? So if we have an "incident, regardless of location, that results in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the U.S. population, infrastructure, environment, economy, or government function” would you like the President to wait four years before taking any action? Or do we think he’ll start a nuclear war, hope for destruction so her can take over? Much ado about nothing. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/6 "2007-05-21T22:33:46Z")
[QUOTE=spifflog] Ohh so what? He issued a directive from the White House. Has it been 5 minutes since the last “I hate Bush Thread”? So if we have an "incident, regardless of location, that results in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the U.S. population, infrastructure, environment, economy, or government function” would you like the President to wait four years before taking any action? Or do we think he’ll start a nuclear war, hope for destruction so her can take over? Much ado about nothing. [/QUOTE] _pats **spifflog** on the head_ Go be a good little German over there, 'kay? ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/7 "2007-05-21T22:35:24Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] _pats **spifflog** on the head_ Go be a good little German over there, 'kay? [/QUOTE] Great addition to the thread! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/8 "2007-05-21T22:39:17Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] Correct me if I’m wrong, but that order doesn’t mean crap outside of the Executive branch, right? I mean, the President doesn’t have the Constitutional power to do this kind of thing, and I don’t see the military just acqueiscing to this if something were to happen that would put it into play. [/QUOTE] Of course he has the authority. He just gave it to himself. This thing chills the blood, does it not? And we have no reason to believe that Congress would not go obsequiously right along with it. Way down deep in the most paranoid part of my brain I fear that this man will not be willing to relinquish power when his time is up. The words “Enabling Act” come to mind. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/9 "2007-05-21T22:40:39Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] And we have no reason to believe that Congress would not go obsequiously right along with it. [/QUOTE] **This** Congress?! ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/10 "2007-05-21T22:40:55Z")
Actually, on reading the actual order, it seems to this layman that it really IS much ado about nothing. The whole order is pertinent only to the Executive branch. There is a section about the Executive coordinating with the Legislative and Judicial implementations of a Continuity Plan, but no assertions of presidential authority over those individual branches’ CPs. And as far as comity, in the situation advanced, and to the purpose that the order is relevant to, comity seems to be a fine thing to have. If we’re in a situation where there is an actual incident which requires the branches to work together in order to preserve order, I want them working together, in spite of any policy differences they may have. Note that I’m talking about major incidents, not a tornado taking out a Kansas town, which, tragic as that may be, doesn’t have major implications for the survival of government. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/11 "2007-05-21T22:42:19Z")
[QUOTE=spifflog] Ohh so what? He issued a directive from the White House. Has it been 5 minutes since the last “I hate Bush Thread”? So if we have an "incident, regardless of location, that results in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the U.S. population, infrastructure, environment, economy, or government function” would you like the President to wait four years before taking any action? Or do we think he’ll start a nuclear war, hope for destruction so her can take over? Much ado about nothing. [/QUOTE] Congratulations. This might be the most asinine false dilemma I’ve ever seen on this board. Imagine if Hillary tried to give herself absolute power. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/12 "2007-05-21T22:43:18Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Patriots! To the barricades! To your tents, O Israel! _No pasaran!_ Won’t get fooled again! **Fuck _this_ shit!** … (I may post a more sensible opinion when I calm down. \*If \*I calm down…) [/QUOTE] And us Second Amendment supporters are called “nut jobs?” I’m _real_ glad Congress is trying to reinstate the Assault Weapons Ban. Wouldn’t want any pesky criminals getting assault weapons. And oh, by the way, J. Q. Patriot can turn in his Assault Weapon as well. After all, envisioning scenarios where The People need to defend themselves from a totalitarian, runaway government is just goofy paranoia. Right? Right? [QUOTE=jayjay] Correct me if I’m wrong, but that order doesn’t mean crap outside of the Executive branch, right? I mean, the President doesn’t have the Constitutional power to do this kind of thing, and I don’t see the military just acqueiscing to this if something were to happen that would put it into play. [/QUOTE] How many Army Divisions does the Judicial branch have? How many Fighter Wings the Legislative? Assuming, of course, that the military played ball… ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/13 "2007-05-21T22:49:59Z")
:rolleyes: Oh, for gods sake. Bush can’t just wave a magic wand and give himself ultimate power… Sheesh people…get a grip. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/14 "2007-05-21T22:50:50Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] Actually, on reading the actual order, it seems to this layman that it really IS much ado about nothing. The whole order is pertinent only to the Executive branch. There is a section about the Executive coordinating with the Legislative and Judicial implementations of a Continuity Plan, but no assertions of presidential authority over those individual branches’ CPs. And as far as comity, in the situation advanced, and to the purpose that the order is relevant to, comity seems to be a fine thing to have. If we’re in a situation where there is an actual incident which requires the branches to work together in order to preserve order, I want them working together, in spite of any policy differences they may have. Note that I’m talking about major incidents, not a tornado taking out a Kansas town, which, tragic as that may be, doesn’t have major implications for the survival of government. [/QUOTE] I don’t know. It give Bush the power to “coordinate” and “lead.” That’s all the daylight this guy needs to start behaving like a dictator…which is what he fervently wants to be. He sees any political opposition or dissent – even parliamentary process – as an intolerable affront. I think he really believes he should operate like an Emperor. If you could harness the entitlement emanating from Bush you could power a small city. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/15 "2007-05-21T22:51:48Z")
[QUOTE=ExTank] And us Second Amendment supporters are called “nut jobs?” I’m _real_ glad Congress is trying to reinstate the Assault Weapons Ban. Wouldn’t want any pesky criminals getting assault weapons. And oh, by the way, J. Q. Patriot can turn in his Assault Weapon as well. After all, envisioning scenarios where The People need to defend themselves from a totalitarian, runaway government is just goofy paranoia. Right? [/QUOTE] Meh. In Hussein’s Iraq, every household had its AK-47. It didn’t matter. Oh, you have an assault rifle? The government has assault rifles, grenade launchers, flamethrowers, mortars, heavy artillery, helicopters, armored personnel carriers, tanks, fighter jets, bomber jets, and **organization.** Now shut up and pay your taxes! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/16 "2007-05-21T22:51:26Z")
Sorry, but I can’t get worked about an editorial from “[Progressive.org](http://Progressive.org)”. From the actual directive: > [@](#): > > Purpose > > (1) This directive establishes a comprehensive national policy on the continuity of Federal Government structures and operations and a single National Continuity Coordinator responsible for coordinating the development and implementation of Federal continuity policies. This policy establishes “National Essential Functions,” prescribes continuity requirements for all executive departments and agencies, and provides guidance for State, local, territorial, and tribal governments, and private sector organizations in order to ensure a comprehensive and integrated national continuity program that will enhance the credibility of our national security posture and enable a more rapid and effective response to and recovery from a national emergency. Emphasis added. This doesn’t apply to the other 2 branches of government, but just sets up a central coordinating function for the executive branch. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/17 "2007-05-21T22:55:40Z")
Not that I want to get into a hijack (already) but: [QUOTE=BrainGlutton] In Hussein’s Iraq, every household had its AK-47. [/QUOTE] :dubious: Do you have a cite for this incredible statement? Afaik, Joe Iraqi did NOT have an assault rifle in the cupboard…at least not legally. I seriously doubt that most citizens had them ILLEGALLY for that matter, at least before the invasion. -XT ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/18 "2007-05-21T22:57:35Z")
Cool! Will this still be in effect when Hillary takes over? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/19 "2007-05-21T23:00:20Z")
[QUOTE=DanBlather] Cool! Will this still be in effect when Hillary takes over? [/QUOTE] :dubious: Get real…Bush The Wondiferous, by the Lord of Light first King of the America’s is going to have her taken out and shot sometime early next week… 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/20 "2007-05-21T23:00:37Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Meh. In Hussein’s Iraq, every household had its AK-47. It didn’t matter. Oh, you have an assault rifle? The government has assault rifles, grenade launchers, flamethrowers, mortars, heavy artillery, helicopters, armored personnel carriers, tanks, fighter jets, bomber jets, and **organization.** Now shut up and pay your taxes! [/QUOTE] Then I, for one, welcome our new Shrubbery-type overlords. 🙂 Seriously, check out the second-half of that post, my reply to **jayjay.** No president has any authority that the armed forces doesn’t give him. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988.md?page=2)